James: Figuring out who you are can be a long battle for many. It just takes time to figure out what you’re good at, what works for you, what you want and what you can actually achieve. Figuring ourselves out can be a battle in and of itself, let alone finding that special someone who will love you for you, accept you for the real you. Finding that one is another battle, however it’s usually not a literal battle. And usually, you don’t have to get through 7 Evil Adversaries to do so.
Seán: When we talk about seven evil adversaries, we ain’t talking about The Nexus within our current story arc. No no, not at all. We’re of course talking about the evil exes of a certain dream girl who caught the eye of a young, 22 year old, Canadian bassist in the mysterious land of Toronto, Canada.
JT: That’s right! It’s time for a very special episode of, well just “The Power Hour” at this point. There’s really no wrestling connection except that it’s from the summer of 2010!! We’re gonna celebrate its upcoming 12th birthday with a review. That’s right, JT & Seány are taking on a special edition review of Scott Pilgrim vs The World!!
S: WE ARE THE POWER HOUR! ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR!
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Hello Again, Friend of a Friend
JT: Wow, ain’t this a surprise? Well, maybe not to all of you, but surely to a bunch of you. As I’m sure you’re all aware, the Power Hour is a real passion project for Seán and I. We’re in this for the fun and our own enjoyment! And with the influence of OSW and the Attitude Era Podcast Family, it’s only that me and my OTP Seán have a little fun and review Scott Pilgrim vs The World, a film very near and dear to both of our hearts.
S: It’s always been a movie which I think we’ve discussed now and again with one another since becoming friends a few years back. It’s a movie which really caught me eye during adverts, but I never got around to watching until about five years ago when I was still in secondary school. Ever since then, it’s always been a movie which I come back to. It has its place on the “Seány Mc Reliables” list. Up there with Superbad, The Big Lebowski, Back to the Future, Dazed and Confused and No Country for Old Men in terms of movies which I will usually go back to.
JT: I was always introduced to this movie in my younger years, since one of my best friends swore by this movie. So I ended up watching back in high school around 7-8 years ago, and it’s become an all time favorite of mine. Especially when it was on Netflix, I had to constantly fight the urge to just throw it on and watch it one more time.
S: You talk about this being on Netflix because James, this movie has been on and off of various streaming platforms for the last six or seven years, it seems. I mean, this was on Prime Video just two weeks ago and when I got around to it yesterday, nowhere to be seen, so I rented it off YouTube. This has been on and off of Netflix at various points too, much like various movies with cult followings like this movie.
JT: And a cult classic this one is! But this is something we’ll go much further in depth on later. That said, I definitely think you’re right in attributing its niche popularity to its constant traveling from streaming service to streaming service. The big whigs are willing to spend money on it, because they know there will be a devoted audience for it, but it’s not big enough to spend top bucks to secure the rights for.
S: Yeah exactly, it’s the same thing with Dazed and Confused. A movie which didn’t make a big profit, which does have a cult following, but it has gained a following from bouncing around from platform to platform and probably Sky Movies in the UK and Ireland as well. There’s several movies like this which have gained followings in the past decade or so. This is definitely one of them, although definitely more expensive to purchase the rights for than the previous movie I just mentioned. Mainly because of the reputation the director has, and who the distributors are.
JT: Well since you brought that point up, do you want to discuss the oddly stacked cast of this movie? It’s like the WWE Roster in 2007, to bring up that annoying chestnut.
S: More than anything because every time I watch this movie, I am reminded of how freaking good this cast is because it’s a real great lineup.
JT: Oh course, our leading man, Scott Pilgrim is Mr 2000s Teen Comedy himself, Michael Cera. His beau is none other than Ms. Obi Wan Kenobi, Mary Elizabeth Winstead. Then of course is the run of Superheroes, including Chris “Captain America” Evans, Brie “Captain Marvel” Larson, Brandon “Superman Returns” Routh, and even an uncredited appearance by Thomas “The Punisher” Jane. And we shouldn’t also forget Succession star Kieran “Yes, Macaulay’s brother, you know he was actually in Home Alone too” Culkin, Anna Kendrick pioneer of “that annoying cup song from middle school”, the better half of the Andy/April pairing on Parks and Recreation Aubrey Plaza, Allison Pill who you might know from like a thousand different TV shows from the last 20 years, and Ellen Wong who has the most concrete wrestling tie-in since she was on GLOW. Quite the array of names, really.
S: It really is quite the ensemble of names who have all gone on to be successful in various different forms. Whether that be on HBO, Netflix, through Marvel, and then there’s Brandon Routh, who trumps all of them. I think this cast is brilliant in my opinion, they were all cast perfectly and are the ringers to their comic book counterparts, especially Mark Webber as Stephen Stills. We’ll get into why their characters are great, but I think it’s important to note how perfectly these roles were casted.
JT: Yeah when it comes to this flick, there’s no shortage of charisma and no shortage of fun performances. Everyone does pretty much the best possible job with what they were given, which is one of many reasons why I wanted to do this episode. But of course, we can’t forget to give credit to the man behind the camera, Edgar Wright.
S: Definitely, I think Edgar Wright was a very fitting director to have for this film. Given his known love of proper nerdy shit and retro pop-culture, which is seen in Shaun of the Dead, Hot Fuzz and Spaced. I think he’s the right director you can have on board to make this film feel and flow like a comic book on the big screen.
JT: Of course, you can’t let him actually do his own thing though. That would just be too much, wouldn’t it Marvel! Still salty we got whatever Ant-Man is than what we would’ve got with Wright’s version of Ant-Man.
S: For a second I thought you were saying that Edgar Wright directed the first Ant-Man, because that movie did not feel very Edgar Wright at all. Very much, a solid Marvel movie, directed in their style and Wright doesn’t feel like a Marvel suited director. I would actually loved to have seen what his version of Ant-Man would’ve been, I think him and Paul Rudd would’ve been a good pairing of director and leading man.
JT: Oh wait do you not know? He was actually signed on to do Ant-Man! He had been involved in writing a script for an Ant-Man movie dating all the way back to 2003, slowly coming into the MCU orbit as the MCU became a thing. Like we’re talking by like 2010 he was in, working on his Ant-Man movie. However, it wasn’t until May 2014 when it was jointly announced that Wright was stepping away from Ant-Man, as he said “I wanted to make a Marvel movie but I don’t think they really wanted to make an Edgar Wright movie”. Oh, what could have been.
S: What a missed opportunity, but I think Wright’s style of directing, by 2014, was definitely not the style which Marvel had in mind for one of their movies around this time. Which is a shame, because I do think having unique directors in your growing cinematic universe can help your audience distinguish each movie from the others.
JT: Well we talk about style, but we’ve not been all that specific have we? I say it’s time we get to the actual examples, as we break down the movie as a whole!! What do ya say Seán, ready to get this show on the road?
S: Let’s kick it off, or break the ice if you will. Get it? Canada? Cold? You know what I mean.
JT: Bell rings and….wait this isn’t that type of episode! So the movie kicks off and the tone is already set, as we get an 8 Bit version of the Universal Logo!! Already you gotta know, this ain’t your standard movie, this is a movie for the nerds!! If you like video games, this is for you! Strap in, because this is just the beginning.
S: It’s a movie for folks like me and you. Can I just mention how I love the 8-Bit intro? Like it’s so low energy and nerdy that it fits this movie so well.
JT: It just goes to show that every little chance they had to put in a gag or a reference, they took it. This is a less than 2 hour long movie, but Edgar Wright and the team absolutely overloaded the whole movie till it was choked to the brim with stuff.
S: Yeah honestly, they made sure that this movie would be one of those which was totally rewatchable. We’ll get into all of the awesomeness in, well just about now, how does our story begin?
JT: Well we are introduced to our story, in Bizarro World itself, Canada. Specifically Toronto, Ontario, Canada. Where 22 year old Scott Pilgrim, is dating a High School Girl. Immediately, we are shown that asshole Scott, looking as clueless as only Michael Cera can manage. It’s not a great look, according to friend/bandmate Kim Pines, but Scott assures her and head of the band Stephen Stills that it’s totally normal, and not at all a rebound, and besides she’s here to see the band and she’ll totally love it! This is how we’re introduced to Knives Chau, Scott’s girlfriend. She says the round, even meeting Young Neil himself! Why is he “Young Neil”? Is he the band’s rapper? No. Is he at least in the band? Well, when asked what he plays, he says Zelda, Tetris, the good stuff. So anyway, they’re going to play a song, and it’s—WE ARE SEX BOB OMB!! And we kick off our opening credits in grand fashion!! Before we talk about the credits themselves because there’s plenty to say there, any notes you’d like to say about the intro scene? Because I think there’s a lot to point out in just that opening 2 minutes.
S: Well even from the first two minutes, we get a very good idea of all of our characters. Scott, as we can tell, is definitely on a rebound, reserved and quirky. Kim is quiet, stern and quick witted. Stephen, the Chris Sabin looking fella, is passionate about the music but definitely one anxious customer. Young Neil, in a world of his own but we learn that he’s quite intelligent and talented, the understudy. Knives, the kindest character in the movie, enthusiastic and a total fangirl.
JT: One little detail I noticed that helped push Kim’s character was Knives being introduced to her, immediately getting it wrong (adding to Knives being kind of a ditz) and there’s a little microphone feedback when much to Kim’s announcement, she has to say her name again.
S: I noticed that as well, great little details. Now that you do mention it, Knives’ character is definitely a bit ditzy to be honest. Did you like the Zelda sound effects which were used before the credits began?
JT: I do! There are many like it throughout the rest of the movie, but it’s nice and quirky. Though this movie is based on the comics more than the eventual video game that came out, the sound effects really make this feel like a “video game movie”. So not necessarily a movie about a video game as much as a movie that is made by people with a love and respect for video games and video game culture.
S: Definitely, the inclusion of the sound effects is just a nod of appreciation towards The Legend of Zelda and other video game IPs. How about that opening credits song, eh? What a banger and a half that song is.
JT: Oh for sure! The garage rock might not be to everyone’s taste, especially because the lyrics are usually pretty gibberish (in this case, the word yeah exclusively) but I think the song has just the right energy needed. We go from a pretty standard feeling teen comedy dialogue right into bombastic spectacle, with the room expanding and the energy dialed up to 11. Though the video game stuff already made things feel different, the music into the opening title and credits explode onto the scene. If the video game universal logo was revving up the engine, the credits were slamming on the accelerator.
S: I love the vibe which “We Are Sex Bob-Omb” gives off though because I feel like if I started a real garage band then this is the type of music I’d be putting out. Distorted bass, semi-acoustic guitar, cheap-ish equipment. Tell ya what I wouldn’t have though, and that’s Scott’s bass. My man only has himself a fucking Rickenbacker 4003 bass, which is still crazy to me, and I’m also jealous as hell.
JT: Alright in Wrasslin terms, which wrestler is that bass the equivalent of?
S: Oh man, now that’s a toughie. It’s a bass which was massive in the 70s, 80s and early 90s. Played by the likes of Geddy Lee from Rush, Lemmy from Motorhead, Phil Lynnot from Thin Lizzy at times, and CLIFF FUCKING BURTON from Metallica. Like this bass is a proper signature of bass icons. If I were to liken it to a wrestler, it’s a gritty bass, it sounds great, it speaks loud and it’s crazy tough. I’m gonna say it’s the Mick Foley/Cactus Jack of basses.
JT: Now that’s pretty rad. And honestly kind of out of character for Scott to have a cool bass? Which actually brings me on a tangent! You know you heard the original Scott Pilgrim graphic novels in preparation for this episode? ME that’s who. So it’s time for the first of what will be many editions of “Did you know in the comics”. Did you know that in the comics, Scott doesn’t actually own his base? It’s actually his brother’s base that he uses because he’s a deadbeat. Also, Scott has a brother!
S: That does make sense now that you mention it because Rickenbackers are SUPER expensive, like two and a half grand expensive, so for him to borrow his brother’s bass because he’s a deadbeat who doesn’t have a job makes a lot of sense. When you mention Scott’s brother, is Scott’s sister, Stacey Pilgrim a character in the comics?
JT: Yeah she’s one of the characters who is most or less unchanged in the comics. I’ll go into this more when the right time comes up, but the disconnect between comics and movies is an interesting one. For the most part, things aren’t really drastically different for the characters. There’s more development, as you’d expect for a medium that allows for more drawn out (hehe) storytelling, but the movie more or less squares up the vibes of the characters. Not 1 to 1, but as a whole I found things pretty similar. Stacey ain’t the most important character, so she’s pretty much the same, though I guess she feels a bit more mature in comics.
S: I have heard that there is more development in the comics alright, I’m trying to remember where did I hear it from though. It may have been OSW’s review of this, maybe something else. So what is Scott’s brother called in the comic?
JT: You know, I didn’t remember! Probably because Scott is self centered and never really refers to him by name. But after one google search that made me feel like if Hulk Hogan was an evil ex, I found out his name is Lawrence!
S: Lawrence Pilgrim, it’s almost as if they wanted you to forget what his name was. No offense to any Lawrences out there, I do apologize if I offend.
JT: Please forgive us, but old Larry Pilly doesn’t exactly leave a huge impact (potential on purpose!). Now, we’ve talked about the music from the opening title scene, but now I’ve got something to say about the credits themselves! I’ve noticed that there are a bunch of little graphics that go along with everyone’s names in accordance to their characters. Would you like me to run them all down?
S: Please do, I noticed some things upon watching but I couldn’t recall them as we’re doing this.
JT: Alright here we got:
-Michael Cera gets bass guitar strings for Scott
-Mary Elizabeth Winstead gets sort of scratchy changing colors
-Kieran Culkin gets sort of what I think are either eyes or like a battery, I’m not sure
-Chris Evans gets stars, Xs. skateboards, the Lucas Lee logo, and the number 2
-Anna Kendrick gets yellow and brown splotches for Stacey’s job
-Brie Larson gets a big heart that breaks in half for Envy’s effect on Scott
-Allison Pill gets the count in, a Sex Bob Omb and music notes
-Audrey Plaza gets the big black boxes for Julie’s famous bit
-Brandon Routh has Xs, a bass guitar, and blasting circles and the number 3
-Jason Schwartzmen gets the Gideon Graves logo, Xs, glasses and the number 7
-Johnny Simmons gets Tetris Blocks
-Mark Webber gets some guitars with flannel patterns
-Mae Whitman gets a black screen with red Xs, slashes and the number 4
-Ellen Wong has got knives because she’s Knives! Also some polka dots
-Satya Bhaba, Keita Saito and Shota Saito share one screen with a whole lot of Xs, with 1 and 4/5 flashed
And then of course, the production crew gets hearts and stars
S: I did notice some of them, the numbers which represent the evil exes and certain little things like the Sex Bob-Omb, the knives and and the stuff for Chris Evans. Fair play to you for keeping notes on that for us James, you’ve now given me more of a reason to love these opening credits. Love all these little logos which give us a preview of what these characters are known for. Almost like in Smash Bros, where you have a logo of the video game franchise to the character in the character select screen. Like the Super Mushroom with the Mario characters, or the exclamation mark for Snake. Great stuff.
JT: Again, they went into detail with this stuff! Literally blink and you miss it stuff, I had to slow my video player down to half speed to make sure I got everything.
S: So since you’ve brought it up now, how did you watch this movie? What platform did you use to watch it? Because I rented it off YouTube for like 4 quid.
JT: Well funny enough, I did the same thing. Usually I’m resistant to paying money for this sort of stuff, but I love this movie enough that I’ve got no problem supporting it financially again.
S: And to be fair, it’s only a couple of bucks we’re dropping to watch the movie with no buffering whatsoever so I couldn’t pass on it.
JT: Exactly! So all in all, we’ve got ourselves a fun little first five minutes don’t we? We’ve met the main gang, we’ve heard Sex Bob Omb and we’ve already set up our main character motivations! So far, so good if you ask me!
S: Definitely! That’s about as effective as an opening five minutes that I can ask for really.
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Ramona, On My Mind
S: Good job that, now how does our story post-opening credits begin?
JT: Well we get Scott with the band, with Kim specifically questioning Scott’s motives and why he’s so peachy about this. She also lets him know that “if your life had a Face I’d punch it”. We then go to dirtbag Scott’s apartment, where he owns nothing and contributes very little. This is how we’re introduced to an all time side character, Wallace Wells! Wallace is awesome, and I will take no flack about it. Even if in this movie he is mainly just there to make gay jokes, which is mostly the same in the comic to be fair. Honestly I was kinda surprised how many punchlines in it were really just “you’re gay”. But then again, the comic started in 2004. And it’s not like it homophobic, Wallace is just as cooky as everyone else, just with a lifestyle that’s used to poke fun at Scott and the rest of the cast. So yeah, Wallace Wells!!
S: He’s probably the best side character in the movie. He’s not a deadbeat like Scott, he seems to be very outgoing and is definitely a charmer towards the blokes. I think his comedic timing and his lines are up there as the funniest in the movie. So perfectly cast too, Kieran Culkin just has such brilliant comedic timing and his delivery is so good in this.
JT: I’ll say Kieran’s sharpness does come off a bit harsher than I think Wallace came off in the comics, but it makes for a fitting change. In the comics, the sort of harsher motivational moments go to Stephen Stills on more than a few occasions, but for the sake of streamlining things Wallace does well. Like you said, Kieran Culkin is so good and has some of the best lines in the whole movie.
S: We’ll get into them in a bit but I do love how they highlight in the flat that absolutely nothing belongs to Scott at all. Everything is bought by Wallace, he cooks, he cleans, he buys the stuff. Oh, and they share a bed together, how quirky!
JT: It does make for some great gags as the movie goes on. So the two of them go to pick up Knives from school (there are boys there too), and when they get there Wallace tells Knives she’s too good for Scott. Of course this happens with a slick scene transition from their flat to the school. I’m not gonna mention this every time it happens, because it happens a lot, but man the scene transitions in this. They’re magnificent!
S: These transitions are very smooth indeed, it does make it feel like it’s playing out like a comic book. As you said there, it’s slick, and it’s visually very easy on the eyes. Love the sound effects text which appears when the bell rings too.
JT: That’s another neat visual trick in this, the physical SFX appearing is very comic book, and definitely stylish. So then we get a Scott and Knives date, highlighting that Scott is a scumbag. He made the high schooler pay for the ninja dance game they played together! She’s not even an adult you bum! More jerkass lines include “I’m sorry you were saying about me?”, and him highlighting that he lives across the street from his parents house. He barely even moved out for ducks sake! We also see Scott walk her back home, past a giant X in the snow. But just as it seems like the Scott x Knives relationship is going smoothly, Scott has a dream. A dream where he sees a girl and from there it’s pretty much immediately over. We get the perfect representation of bright light coming in through your window as Scott slept in and blew off his girlfriend, and then he totally loses focus as Ramona Flowers appears at the library. Sorry Knives, but your goose is cooked. It’s over.
S: I think the signs were showing as soon as he made her pay for the ninja dance game, if I’m being honest, but once he first sees Ramona delivering for amazon. Lights out. Game over. See ya bye.
JT: Not just delivering for Amazon, but delivering for Amazon dot CA (what’s the website for that again?). But after seeing her once, he’s gotta see her again. So he goes with the band to a party (and them saying “at least it’ll give us something to complain about” is super relatable to me) where Scott asks local guide Comeau (he knows everyone) if he knows a girl with hair like this. Great gag. He of course knows her and Scott goes over to put the old Pilgrim charm on her. And it totally flops. The way his Pac-Man speech is completely no sold is hilarious. This is his authentic self. And then Julie forbids him from going after Ramona because he breaks hearts. Cue the hilarious “Kim and I are fine” bit as it cuts to her with total horror movie sound effects. Oh and then he stalks Ramona for the rest of the party. Because Scott is a jerk and not good.
S: So many great gags in these few minutes man. Going to Comeau asking if he knows a girl who looks like “this”, with a scrawly drawing and he instantly knows who she is? That got such a big laugh out of me. The “Kim and I are fine” bit, fucking brilliant. Also, not charming at all towards Ramona. May need to change up that strategy of yours, Scott.
JT: Of course, after a hilarious bit where Wallace nails Scott in the head with his keys, Scott decides his new strategy will be to order from Amazon and wait for her to show up with the package. Genius Scott, your wit is unmatched. In the meantime he gets some boring email about 7 evil blah blahs, who cares honestly. He waits for the package like a goof, and then she shows up! She being Knives, who he left at a bus station for 40 minutes! Cue a “Scott is disinterested” montage complete with a failure at the Ninja Dance game and Scott just giving up rather than try against the “Nega Ninja”. And yet he still doesn’t break up with Knives??? So in his boredom he goes to pee with the 10/10 Pee Bar joke. Like it’s even reflected in the mirror!! C’mon, that’s cinema! But upon leaving the bathroom he ends up in sub-space, a concept that totally goes unexplained in the movie. It’s not like a very elaborately explained thing in the comics either, but more is definitely put into it. What does it mean for the movie? It means Ramona is here with his package, that he immediately tosses in the trash, as she agrees to at least hang out with him once. Now Seán, have you seen the outtakes for this scene?
S: I did not before you mentioned it, so I had a quick gander online and man, that must’ve been a chore to film because it took Michael Cera 33 god damn attempts to do it. I’m surprised it didn’t take more.
JT: 33 takes for a frame that takes roughly 10 seconds of screen time. Love Wright to death but boy, I can understand why he might not be everyone’s cup of tea to work with. Any other thing you think worth pointing out from that whole little section? Any jokes stand out for you?
S: I laughed out loud at the “Amazon dot ca” joke. Scott, not owning a computer doesn’t exactly know how the Internet works so that’s a good gag, and the fact that the stereotype around this time is that Canada is always a year or two behind everyone else. I liked that Scott completely gave the Pac Man line the Benoit treatment, saying it was some other guy when asked. Great stuff.
JT: So despite her initial reluctance, Scott and Ramona go on a nice little walk through the park. It’s a chill walk! Chilled as in cold! Zing! 10 points for House Pilgrim! They’ve got a nice little cute thing going, which is aided by the music in the background being rather romantic. And then they decide to go back to Ramona’s place, nice this date isn’t actually going too bad. Then we get an example of how Mary Elizabeth Winstead is super talented. What kind of tea is available? Blueberry, raspberry, ginseng, sleepytime, green tea, green tea with lemon, green tea with lemon and honey, liver disaster, ginger with honey, ginger without honey, vanilla almond, white truffle, blueberry chamomile, vanilla walnut, constant comment and earl gray. First off, to memorize that whole list for the take is awesome. Almost even more impressive was during the 10 year anniversary table read that was done on Zoom in 2020, she nailed that whole list on her first time! I mean she had the script in front of her but damn.
S: That’s talent right there, honestly. To reel off all of those types of tea in a take while the cameras are rolling is amazing. The fact she did it again in 2020, through Zoom, the height of being stuck inside, and nailing it? Hats off to Mary Elizabeth Winstead.
JT: Of course, they end up opting to skip tea time and look to have a good, adult time together…then Ramona decides to slow down for tonight. Still, Scott assured her that this isn’t a one time thing, he wants to be there for the long haul. So they’re all set up for a next date, topped off with Scott’s perfect summation of being in his shoes: “Wow girl number”. Steamy scene, and a step forward for Scott. At the very least, he’s in a relationship with boundaries.
S: But James! Isn’t he still technically together with Knives? Am I sensing a case of two timing?!
JT: Well that’s something that Scott is gonna have to deal with as they head to the first Sex Bob Omb gig of the movie!
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Sweet, I love this One
JT: Time for the beginning of the battle! The Toronto Battle of the Bands of course! Where is it? Well it’s at the Rock It, as we can tell by the fact they cut straight to the Rock It sign as Stephen explains that. Now naturally, Scott is now caught himself into a tough predicament and Knives runs up and gives him a smooch with Ramona right there. She glares at Knives, Stacey glares at her, Wallace glares at her date Jimmy. Love the little snap cuts there. And how does Scott confront this situation? He does a wimpy little runaway. What a man! Now, who is up first? Well it’s Crash and The Boys! And now is the time for one of Wallace’s finest moments.
S: “IS THAT GIRL A BOY TOO???” He heckles from the crowd. Mwah! That is an all-timer.
JT: On top of that, he follows up their rousing rendition of “SOOOOO SAD” with “it’s not a race you guys” and when they hit him with “We hate you, please die” he says “Sweet, I love this one” and puts his hand on Jimmy’s shoulder. He knows exactly what he’s doing. From there we see Stills being a ball of anxiety, as Crash and The Boys shred. I’m just gonna say, I love the way this movie visualizes music. It’s great.
S: They treat music in this movie like we’re getting to see a music video of a live band playing. It’s really fucking cool, also the little effects which are seen like bass notes and when the cymbals are being played. The way the music is visualized is as if you’re getting swept up in all of this energy. It’s brilliant and aesthetically pleasing.
JT: Speaking of which, after Scott fires up Stephen (mostly out of fear of Ramona & Knives talking) Sex Bob Omb performers one of my favorites from this film, Garbage Truck!! Seán, do you want to take a ride on the garbage truck?
S: Boy do I! Man, this song is really good. Not just good in terms of it being a movie original song, but just a really good song in a musical sense. This is one of the songs from the movie which I have learned on bass. I would recommend people who are just learning bass or would like to learn a simple song to learn this, it’s not too hard and it sounds great! I love the sound this song has.
JT: Well it’s funny that you mention that! I consider this as pertinent time as any to mention that the Sex Bob Omb gang had to actually learn how to play their instruments for this movie! Well except for Cera, who already played base. But that’s how we end up with scenes of people playing music where they actually look like they’re playing the music.
S: I did hear about this! I think they said it was great working with Michael Cera too because he was well versed in bass, and dabbled in other instruments too. You know he definitely taught Michael Webber guitar and Johnny Simmons bass too.
JT: What a pro! Gotta love that! Fun little detail in the song, if you know the song you’ll know that Young Neil, he’s not ready to be in the band yet. After all, he can’t even get the lyrics to the song right! But their performance is swiftly cut off from an Angel from above! Did I say Angel? I mean a Demon, as Matthew Patel just bursts into the scene and I gotta have a laugh at it. It’s just so out of left field, he just bursts in and nobody knows who he is or why he’s here or what he’s talking about.
S: This whole bit of his arrival is just hilarious because everyone is just going “who the fuck is this?” rather than “oh shit, Scott’s in hot water”. His whole arrival is completely no sold by everyone and I love it, everyone’s confused and nobody wants him here. He’s literally the unwanted guest at a party.
JT: Of course, Scott fights him off with a big reversal punch after Wallace tells him to FIGHT!! After a big roundhouse kick and a 64 hit combo by Scott, Patel has to explain to him what’s going on, since Scott didn’t read the email. He is, of course, Ramona’s first evil ex!! This all happens amidst a flurry of blows between them and funny enough, the fights are almost more normalized in the comics. Like in this everyone seems surprised Scott can even throw a punch. As for the deal with Patel, Ramona explains their brief little history, that they dated very briefly back in 7th grade because he was not white and not a football player and it spitted the average jock. That doesn’t really explain why he is the way is to everyone, for example Wallace wants to know why he looks like a pirate (it’s because pirates are in this year). And of course this leads into his most iconic moment: His song! What do you think of Matthew Patel’s big song?
S: For a man who is definitely like a pirate, or if the host of Blue’s Clues had a bit of an edge to him, his song was definitely not a yo-ho-ho and a bottle of rum. I do love how this song took ALL the main characters by surprise, they’re just as confused about this musical number as we are. I was confused the first time I watched it but I just laughed on rewatch. It’s a proper Bollywood song and yet he has demon hipster girls surrounding him. What kind of pirate is this Mr. Patel?
JT: If he’s any kind of Pirate, I’d say he’s a Heavy Metal Pirate, like the fellas in Alestorm. Of course, they’re Scottish and he’s Indian-American. Did you also like his little rhyming gimmick too?
S: It’s certainly “s-l-ick” until he starts shooting fire and forgets to rhyme! That doesn’t even rhyme! Better watch out for that crash cymbal, Matty.
JT: Though Crash and The Boys don’t live to see it, that cymbal to the face symbolizes Patel’s end as it knocks him silly and Scott hits a Superman Punch for the K-O!! Patel turns into some chump change, one evil ex down!! And lemme just say, Matthew Patel? You sir, are an all time great jobber. Memorable, fun, but not bland and not a total pushover, though he loses with ease.
S: He’s the Heath Slater of movie jobbers, he’s entertaining as hell but you know this guy is going down. He’s honestly brilliant in his brief spell, total first boss, yes, but great nonetheless. I liken him to the first goomba at the start of a Mario level. Actually, that’s probably harsh, how about Boom Boom? Of Mario Bros. 3 and Mario 3d Land and 3d World fame?
JT: That sounds about right. And to cap this whole situation off, Stacey looks over and her date is locking lips with Wallace. That little rascal!
S: He’s only gone and done it again so he has! Oh Wallace, what’re you like? So with that, there’s one down and six more to go. An easy first challenge for Scott, but the fight has just begun!
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He Seems Nice
JT: So after the fight, Ramona explains just like Patel did, that if she’s going to keep dating him, he’s gonna need to go through her 7 Evil Exes. And right on cue, you can spot an X on Scott’s jacket. That doesn’t ruin the night, as they kiss on the bus, and you can see hearts forming in the reflection of the glass behind them. Scott returns the next morning to a Seinfeld Bass Line and a laugh track, explaining to Wallace how he kind of scored last night, but Wallace reminds him he needs to break up with Knives. In the meantime, Wallace tells him that there’s a movie being filmed nearby, to which Scott says “They make movies in Toronto?”. Get it? Because this movie was filmed in Toronto. Hardy har har. Anyway, the movie being filmed is starring Lucas Lee, and it’s about as cheesy as they come. Funny enough Seán, I watched a recent movie (Gray Man) on Netflix, which I saw somebody call it “a full version of a Lucas Lee movie”. I also did not think the movie was very good.
S: Now I’ve heard nothing but meh to bad things about Netflix’s “Gray Man” but the fact somebody has called it a full length Lucas Lee movie really has perked up my interest because I almost want to watch it ironically now. I saw this clip of the movie and I immediately went “PHONEBOOTH!”, as in “Phonebooth” (2002) starring Colin Farrell, which was one of those movies which was watched a lot on VHS or DVD in my house. Haven’t seen it in years though.
JT: Yeah well in Lucas Lee fashion, he absolutely hams it up in Gray Man. And it’s seemingly already got a sequel green-lit, so I suppose it wouldn’t be the worst thing to watch to kill time since it’s seemingly gonna stick around for a while. Meanwhile, Scott goes out with Knives, again!! And it’s bad as in the music store, a certain song about a dark colored pasture grazing animal can be heard, while Scott assumes Knives asking him to come eat dinner with the family means having Chinese food. He also asks Knives if she’s even allowed to date outside her own race. Smooth. I suppose this is as good a time as any to bring up a part of the graphic novels that wasn’t even in this movie a little bit. And that is…Knives’s Dad! Seán, when I bring up “Knives’s dad” as a character, what do you think his deal would be?
S: I’d imagine he’s the type of stereotypical “Asian parent” you get in movies and TV. I’m guessing he has a really well paid job, maybe he’s a high up doctor, or a college professor who disapproves of Scott and doesn’t think anyone is good enough to date his daughter and because of that, he’s a total hardass on whoever she dates. Something like that? Or is he the total opposite?
JT: You’re not that far off honestly. He does fit the “Asian Parent” stereotype, because he ends up disapproving of Scott for being a white boy dating his daughter. However, he is just some regular guy, he’s essentially on the power level of another evil ex! Dude slashes a bus in half with a Samurai Sword!! He ends up chasing after Scott on a few occasions and Scott has a few moments hiding from him, trying to figure out who he is and what he’s after, but ultimately after chasing Scott, he ends up in a fight with one of the Evil Exes (Number 4). It’s only once Scott confronts that Ex and what his whole connection with them and Ramona, does Mr Chau gain respect for him. In general, I feel like he’s a worthy cut from the movie because he honestly doesn’t add a ton to the overall story except as an outside character who reflects the growth the main characters (Scott & Knives specifically) go through. He’s got a rad design though, I highly recommend at least looking up the frame where he cuts through the bus.
S: Yeah he honestly doesn’t sound like he’d add a whole pile to the movie so seeing that he’s a comic exclusive sounds about right to me. I will definitely look up that frame now though……I’ve looked up him and oh yeah, he looks fucking cool. Any dad with a goatee, sunglasses, a DUSTER AND A POLO SHIRT? Ultimate cool dad.
JT: He almost gives me Masahiro Chono vibes in a way. So while Scott seems uncomfortable hanging out with Knives, Knives drops a bomb on him. She thinks this might be LOVVEEEEE!! What does Scott say? Well he thinks it might be time for them to break up! Ouch. The scene goes real quiet for that, but the music starts to pick back up again as Scott leaves and starts getting happier thinking about Ramona. A couple of things. First, “love” coming at him like the perfumes from the legendary SpongeBob episode Shanghaied (S2 EP13) is so funny. It was like a poisonous gas. Anywho, do you think Scott handled the breakup well? Do you think this was an excellently executed maneuver?
S: I mean, it was about as good as he could’ve done given the circumstances but man, he should’ve done it sooner, and the moment which preceded the breakup was just not the right time to break up with someone but hey, he needed to rip the plaster off and that’s what he did.
JT: It feels like a one step forward, two steps back type deal. You’re right that he just had to do it. It was always gonna sting for poor Knives but he couldn’t keep leading her own. So actually breaking up with her? Step forward. But doing it the way he did, right after her big confession? Step back. Not only that but he says it sort of meekly. Not good bro. You gotta put the line in the sand, you gotta be clear and concise. And maybe let her down a little. Also, he came close to not getting any points by my mark, he almost tried to break up with her over the phone! For shame!
S: That’s a big no from me, you learn that in the first few episodes of How I Met Your Mother that you should NEVER break up with a girl over the phone! Didn’t you learn from Ted Mosby, Scott? He got his ass kicked because of it!
JT: For his efforts, he becomes Scott “MJF” Pilgrim, as Kim dubs him the “salt of the earth” (I mean scum of the earth). Just as it seems like Scott was being more active about the band, Ramona comes in, and her hair? You know your hair? She knows of it! Ramona has changed her hair from dark pink to now a dark blue. Seán, gotta ask? Of the (spoilers) 3 different hair colors Ramona has throughout the movie, which do you think looks best?
S: They’re all equally as cool, they all do suit her as well. Like there’s not a color where it looks bad, each color does fit the aesthetic which they were going for with her character. If I were to pick one of the three, I think the pink hair suits her best. How about you? What’s your take?
JT: Yeah I will say, I think this movie and the comic does a great job changing up her look to go along with her changing hair color, they all look great and it never comes off as “oh that person you know just got a terrible haircut and you can’t unsee it.” It also just works to make Ramona an iconic character, it’s just a unique characteristic that’s not in many movies. Like the only other character I can think of is Clementine from Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. That all said, I think green is my pick. Maybe because it’s like my second favorite color, maybe it’s because it’s the last hair color she has. But to be clear, there’s no wrong choice. MEW rocks every look and the costuming department did a great job with her outfits and wigs.
S: I do like how the different hair colors fit the aesthetic of the outfits which she wears as well. If you watch the movie, you’ll know what I mean. Now that you mention Clementine from Eternal Sunshine, that’s not the only thing she has in common with Ramona Flowers. It’s hanging over our head like crazy right now so now we shall discuss. James, four words, manic pixie dream girl.
JT: You know, I watched a video essay like a week ago about this very topic, and how Ramona relates to it. I’m excited to get into this, and since you brought it up, I’ll lay the burden at your feet to explain the MPDG, if you would be so kind.
S: Okay, so this was something which I was aware of for quite a while but wasn’t fully explained to me until it was brought to my attention that a girl who I’d been seeing a little bit at the time was of that exact description. The manic pixie dream girl is essentially a love interest who is a quirky girl, not like most girls who flips the world of the protagonist upside down, or gives them a new lease on life. They can be a bit alternative, share the same musical interests as you, or just be into different music outside of what’s generally popular. They can also have dyed hair or just hair which is outside of the norm.
JT: Funny enough, the last sort of parts there are actually examples of how the term has been flanderized over time! Initially, the term was coined by film critic Nathan Rabin, with the MPDG working as “the fevered imaginations of sensitive writer-directors to teach broodingly soulful young men to embrace life and its infinite mysteries and adventures.” Essentially a female character, usually as an objection of the main male character’s affection, will lead the male protagonist to growth and adventure without having goals or motivations of her own. She is therefore a hollow character, a “dream girl” who sweeps the man away into a more engaging life. The whole “alternative” bit isn’t totally necessary for the MPDG, although that does help as a way to get the guy a more “exciting” life with real music in it or whatnot. The more colloquial version at this point that tends to focus on stuff like that really just comes from it being used as a sexist pejorative for female characters or even real people. IE “She’s not genuinely cool, she’s just a MPDG” aka “She’s a poser and I hate her”.
S: Yeah when I was doing my research for this, I did see that Rabin had grown to essentially loathe the term entirely. I think it’s a bit mean to paint someone with the term in a weaponizing way.
JT: Yeah, using that phrase on people is really just rude. Like, even if you think they’re a poser, they’re faking their interests for attention and whatnot, calling someone a MPDG essentially says they don’t have agency in their own decisions. Like if they want to fake a hobby for attention that’s not great, but it’s still their choice to do so.
But that’s enough real world stuff for now. The big question is whether or not Ramona Flowers is a MPDG. I’ll give you the floor first.
S: I think she’s totally a MPDG, one hundred percent. She totally turns Scott’s world upside down, she is basically the key for Scott to lead a more fulfilling and exciting life, she is literally. Her and Scott’s story is totally the example of “to teach broodingly soulful young men to embrace life and its infinite mysteries”, as stated by Rabin. I don’t think she embraces the negative aspects of it though.
JT: Yeah we can go more in depth on this as we move on, and though I do think there are some negative connotations with this phrase, this is a move that’s style over substance. Ramona’s character isn’t the only character that’s not deep. Pretty much everyone, Scott included, doesn’t have a ton of character. This is more so a movie that delivers more on having high energy and a comedic charm. And I think this still persists to the comics to a lesser degree. Ramona does have more of her own agency in the comic (as I’ll get to later) but she still is a MPDG in that too. And that of course, is not to say you can’t like Ramona or find her relatable or any of that. But we’re going fully in depth on Scott Pilgrim vs The World, and I know neither of us wants to half ass this. There are legit criticisms to be raised about how Ramona is written.
And not to hand wave away the MPDG criticism, but I feel part of the reason she is the way she is is because this is Scott’s story. We know what he knows, and since Ramona plays cool and mysterious, it’s definitely deliberate that he doesn’t know her. Doesn’t make her less of a MPDG, but it’s worth noting.
S: Definitely, it’s something which is worth discussing because her character is always brought up in the MPDG conversation, her, Clementine, Summer from 500 Days of Summer, etc. I think this was the right time to bring this up
JT: Speaking of Summer, I said I watched a video essay before our writing sessions, so I might as well drop the name here since they specifically compared her and Rammy. So shoutout to Uricksaladbar’s “Scott Pilgrim vs The World- Why the Hate & Why it’s Great” video essay! If you thought this discussion was interesting, check out the video
And on the topic of naming content, fuck that one “Ramona Flowers ruined a Generation of Women” song. Absolute sexist horseshit. It is legit just incel nonsense, while also dragging Ramona’s name through the mud because they presumably got their heart broken by some girl with colored hair. Grow up dickwad.
S: I remember hearing about that song somewhere, so I looked it up on Google. The artist came up, so I searched for him and this is hilarious because the first search result which comes up is “Negative XP – the most pathetic musician of all time”. Amazing, your Soundcloud indie music career is dead before it’s even begun, rip bozo.
JT: Sucks to fucking suck. So, shall we get back on track? Back to the main plot?
S: Let’s get out of this rabbit hole, for sure!
JT: So after they talk about their hair, they decide it’s date time! Scott bails on the band, since Young Neil knows his parts! Back at Scott’s place, Scott shows he’s not totally useless as he cooks up some garlic bread, his favorite food. A man of good taste! However, he is not a man of knowledge because Ramona has to break it to him, that eating too much bread isn’t good for you. Why? Well, bread makes you fat! This is easily one of Cera’s best lines, and one of the most memorable of the whole movie. Like it’s true and we don’t really think about it much, until you see this movie and then you think of it every time you get free bread at a restaurant.
S: Oh man, whenever I get free bread at a restaurant, bread of the white variety, I just feel guilty for enjoying it too much because between this line and home economics in secondary school, ya learn that carbs are fattening.
JT: Honestly that line right there is exactly why you cast Michael Cera. I definitely can see arguments that he’s not the confident lady’s man Scott should theoretically be, but it’s clear he was cast with comedic moments like this in mind.
S: Definitely and if you don’t cast him, who else fits the bill of Scott Pilgrim? Like Jesse Eisenberg? But even then, he was probably busy shooting The Social Network and probably another two films around the time this was shot. Andy Samberg? Were there any other names who were rumored for the role?
JT: Well funny enough, it seems like Edgar Wright had his eyes on Cera from the start. He saw him in Arrested Development and that was about it, same goes for MEW with Death Proof. Although for alternative casting choices, I believe Robert Pattinson was in the running for Lucas Lee, and Sebastian Stan for Stephen Stills.
S: Ah yeah, Rob Pattinson would’ve made for a good Lucas Lee alright and Sebastian Stan as Stephen Stills? I can kinda see it but Mark Webber was the perfect choice in my opinion.
JT: Agreed, Webber does great. Speaking of great, not Scott’s song for Ramona. “I can’t wait to hear it when it’s finished” is a tremendous burn for an artist like Pilgrim. So they make out, and Ramona comments that Scott’s hair is shaggy, and we get a nice sound effect, like a kid slammed their hands on the low keys of a piano. Scott’s got baggage of his own from his past Ex as it turns out. Enough so that they leave the comfort of Scott’s room (Wallace’s room honestly) and venture out into the cold. On the way there, I spotted 2 Pedestrian crossing signs (2 Xs), no doubt signaling what’s to come. Also there’s the hilarious exchange “I feel like I’m on drugs when I’m around you. Not that I do drugs, unless you do, in which case I do drugs all the time, every drug”. Where are they going by the way? Oh just to see the film that’s being filmed. Starring Lucas Lee. Who it turns out is Ramona’s second Evil Ex. Ruh roh. But how can you tell he’s the second Evil Ex? He’s got a 2 on his trailer, there’s a 2 on the sports car on det, he’s got 2 Xs on his belt and he’s got a 2 tatt-two’d on his neck.
S: Ahhhhhhh! I get that joke. A delightful pun, bravo James! This man sure as shit loves the number two. I do like how it’s blatantly obvious that he is number two of the seven. Did ya like him making his way out his trailer to the tune of the Universal Studios intro?
JT: Oh that was incredible, honestly this whole section with Lucas Lee is one of my favorite parts of the whole movie. For example, his line reading turns out to be a direct line, to you, Scott Pilgrim!! He then completely clobbers Scott, and has someone clean off his fists. Then comes potentially the best fight in the whole movie, as Lucas introduces his stunt doubles (sometimes they do the wide shots for him when he gets baked in his winnie). Just the whole choreography of his multiple-Lees against Scott, topped off with Chris Evans’s funny over the top delivery (that’s actually hilarious), it’s just 10/10. Scott even gets a nice one liner by beating them all up and saying “Mr Lee, you’re needed back on set”. Of course, he’s not really a match for Number 2, and gets a sucker punch for it. I mean c’mon man, pretending to help Scott up and then punching him again with a big fake evil laugh, it’s funny how he spent years being the golden boy of Captain America. He’s just so good at playing a huge douche.
S: Man, I was cackling during this whole scene with Lucas Lee, man. I thought he was probably the best of the evil exes, like this is a top tier small screen time performance. I think this kind of gimmick would be fantastic in wrestling, yes I know that we had the stunt doubles with The Miz but if some big jock of a wrestler had stunt doubles, people cleaning his fists after punching someone. That would honestly equal money, I think one Eli Dr- sorry, LA Kni- sorry, Max Dupr- sorry, he’s more or less done for at this stage so let’s forget about him. Point is, Chris Evans has one of the best performances in the movie and he’s an incredible douchebag.
JT: And something that I think you’ll appreciate is that the whole Stunt Double fight? That’s original material! I’m like 99% sure that it wasn’t in the Graphic Novels. Some of the lines and jokes and what not are there, like Lucas saying “He seems nice” to Ramona after throwing Scott into the Castle. But the universal neck crack, the big fight with all the stunt doubles, that’s original stuff!! As much as discussing parts of this can come down to “umm in the comic they got more development” suffice to say, I think this whole Lucas Lee section is so much better in the movie. Chris Evans is just such a star, having an actual fight makes the whole thing feel bigger, and just the energy feels way up in this section. It’s solid in the comic, but it’s through the roof in the movie.
S: The fact you’ve said that this is all original material for the movie is quite incredible. There’s so many good lines, so many good bits, a great fight scene and it gets across the character of Lucas Lee so damn well. His character’s career trajectory is basically Jason Lee of My Name is Earl and Kevin Smith movies fame. Started out as a really successful skater and then became a pretty successful actor. Except Jason Lee is way more humble and Lucas Lee probably didn’t practice Scientology throughout his life.
JT: Well if he doesn’t practice it now, I doubt he’ll start later considering…well let’s go to that! So rather than get his ass kicked for the foreseeable future, Scott decides to use the old noodle against Lee. He reminds Lucas that he’s a famous skater, and dares to do a thingy on that rail (a grindy thingy) since I mean, there are ladies watching. Wallace hands him his skateboard, since he’s a big fan (and why wouldn’t you be?). Then we get a real underrated scene as Lucas Lee takes off down the really long, ice railing down to the street, with the camera constantly cutting from Lucas being impressive on his board, to Scott being impressed by his grindy skills (cue Scott’s best Owen Wilson “Wow”). Unfortunately for Lee though, it proves to be too much rail for him, and he wipes out at the bottom, exploding into coins. Scott played into the Superstar’s Super Ego, and he won as a result! That’s two down, five more to go. Just a shame he didn’t get Lucas’s autograph before he beat him.
S: This was probably one of the biggest funnys in the movie for me. Just everything together by playing into his ego, the grind, the wows, the relief that he’s defeated him and then regretting that he never got an autograph? I love this! Everything, all of it together just yes.
JT: Yeah really, just a 10/10 section. Stuff I just wish I could watch again for the first time, although it’s not less fun on the rewind.
S: Definitely, it’s a real high point in the movie for sure and honestly, one of Evans’ best bits he’s done outside of the MCU.
JT: Like he’s good as Captain America, but the MCU is hardly where the best acting moments happen. In my opinion, this and Knives Out are his best actual acting roles.
S: So in conclusion, Lucas Lee > Steve Rogers?
JT: When it comes to watching Lucas Lee, I can do this all day.
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Tell it to the Cleaning Lady on Monday
S: For sure. We’re down two evil exes of Ramona’s but James! Where’s Ramona gone to???
JT: Yeah so unfortunately, it looks like all the macho men fighting made her decide to go home early. How does Scott feel about all this? Well you know what sucks? Everything, everything sucks. He is bummed out that she’s gone and that this is a whole lot more than he expected. Wallace points out to him that he’s gotta sack up, after all, she gave him her number with 7 Deadly Exes on it (though Scott hoped they were 7 little kisses). If Scott wants her, he’s gotta change, he’s gotta get serious. He’s gotta Break out the L Word. No not Lesbian. No not Lesbians. LOVE. And you know what? Scott starts to fire up, he’s ready to go get her back….and then the phone rings.
S: He picks up the phone and bah gawd, it’s she who shall not be named. The breaker of hearts, the true evil ex of Scott Pilgrim, the frontwoman of The Clash at Demonhead! Oh noooooo.
JT: By god, that’s gotta be, that’s good be Natalie V. Adams!! Get it? Envy? N-V? I didn’t realize this till I read it in the comics and they were sure to specifically point it out.
S: I had no idea about that either! It all makes sense now! That is some brilliant wordplay right there. She’s got real brooding heel energy who’s returned to wreak havoc on an old foe. That phone call though, ominous delivery!
JT: Not only does Brie Larson have a great delivery, but the framing of the phone call is amazing too. It starts and you can only see her bright red lipstick, so you know she’s Scott’s big Ex. Then you see the Clash at Demonhead poster come in behind Scott, so you can visualize her and what she stands for (success while Scott has sputtered). To make it even worse, you get the photo reels behind him, really working as Scott’s memories of their best times together, before in the last set, she gets up and leaves him, heartbroken. It’s not subtle at all, but it’s a fun way of showing it visually without having the characters just straight say what happened.
S: I think it’s a completely different and unique method of showing the audience a flashback for a protagonist. Instead of us getting the old quick flashback in video form, we get photo reels which goes from when they’re happy together to when she’s on the outs with him, which is seen by her leaving. Very effective.
JT: And as if things couldn’t get worse for Scott, Knives shows up! Looking for him! Luckily, Wallace sets the pick and blocks her off and Scott dives through the window, grabs his hat and runs. That window gag is so perfect, the timing, the sound effects, the visual, MWAH!!
S: Poor Knives but that window gag there is very much something you’d expect to see during peak Simpsons or something which JD would daydream of in Scrubs. Yes, I am thinking of that window gag in the PTA has Disbanded episode.
JT: Similarly, you’ve got the scene where the Be Sharps perform at the Statue of Liberty and the guy jumps overboard. So the point is, people suddenly jumping out of the area is funny. I demand more of it.
S: He proper Ralph Wiggum missiles out that window too so he does. Like a man jumping through the hole of a bouncy castle, i.e. me at my nieces’ christening to pop the crowd.
JT: Well where is Scott running away to? Well, presumably to make up with Ramona, but he’s not walking alone. Aside from being joined by 5 Xs across the road, with another 2 on the signs, someone is clearly stalking him. They dive at him, he dodges and lands a direct hit! To the boob!! He just punched this ninja on the boob!! He better prepare to die, obviously. Well he can’t die if he doesn’t really understand what’s going on. It doesn’t help that this mysterious ninja lady flubs her lines and smoke bombs away. This is an odd interaction, and one I feel like I always kind of forget about?
S: No offense to the ninja lady, and spoilers here folks, she’s probably the most forgettable of the evil exes. Granted, she stands out because she’s not a man, she is a lady but this interaction, I definitely usually forget happened.
JT: Problem is, this scene is slotted in between the great Lucas Lee stuff and the great Clash at Demonhead material. It makes her appearance later feel less out of nowhere, but when you’re stuck between the two heavy hitters, it’s always going to be trouble. So after that interaction, Scott just wants some coffee and to talk to his sister, but she’s gone and Julie’s there instead with her ◼️◼️◼️◼️◼️◼️ mouth thing. I ◼️◼️◼️◼️◼️◼️ adore her little censor bit. It’s just a little thing that makes Julie’s little side character instantly memorable.
S: Yeah this bit with Julie is ◼️◼️◼️◼️◼️◼️◼️ great, isn’t it? How is she doing that with her mouth? Who knows, she’s quite good at censoring herself. This bit I’d say is probably one of the more memorable things in the movie to reference, isn’t it? Like I always hear this being referenced whenever the movie is being talked about.
JT: It’s just a little gag but it’s one I’ve never seen in any other movie, great stuff. So he meets up with Ramona while drinking coffee, and I noticed that Ramona’s got a shirt with “24” on it, since they’re in between exes 2 & 4. He’s finally gonna nut up and actually have a heartfelt moment, when SHIT!! Envy walks right out of the Clash at Demonhead poster, admitting she’s a little jealous, and inviting Scott to come to the show tomorrow. This totally throws Scott off his game and he ends up going home instead (“what are you, gay?” asks the gay man). Now Sex Bob Omg has to practice to open for the big secret show (to which Kim quips all their shows are secret shows) and Stills says they need stalkers. Cue Knives watching from the video, so upset that Scott broke up with her for “a fatass white girl”. So she’s gotta step up her own game, dying her hair so she can be impressive and cool like Ramona is! I mean she didn’t even know there was good music until 2 months ago, no way can she match the charm of an older girl! But hey, now she’s got a blue split dye, and it looks good!
S: It actually looks pretty cool, it’s quite the look. It’s done completely out of spite but it’s a great character motivation, she thinks Scott likes her only because she’s alt so she’s trying to be that. Although, the blue does just make me think of Aaron Solow of Bayley’s ex-fiance fame, in AEW with the blue streak.
JT: It also shows how totally obsessed she is. She doesn’t understand yet that Scott is just kind of a dick and doesn’t really have a reason for going with Ramona over her. It’s not because she’s got cool hair, their relationship was just not built to last and was built on faulty grounds.
S: I must say, the whole stalkers line where Knives appear in the window, I pissed myself laughing at that bit.
JT: Almost a jump scare sound effect, another great one. I also liked the shot of her in the convenience store looking at all the hair dyes. It’s on screen for like half a second but it’s so nicely framed. Just Knives in the center of this perfectly symmetrical, imposing wall of hair dyes. I’m probably English majoring (over analyzing) this, but I feel like that shot really captures the feeling of wandering into a store, knowing you need a thing but having zero clue what to pick and being bombarded by brands.
S: Oh definitely, walking in to a place knowing what type of product you want to be buy but not knowing what brand to go with is something which can be totally overwhelming, I’ve been in that position before, probably when I’m buying something fairly basic like bacon or along those lines and you’re just trying to pick out which pig did the best rasher come off of.
JT: Unfortunately for Scott as well, she’s decided to rock her new look on the arm of Young Neil!! She’s hitched herself to him in order to show up at the same place as Scott and Ramona! First off, there’s the hilarious shot of her next to Ramona, trying to look tough. She’s just so much smaller. Then of course, upon Scott seeing both of them together he says what any man in his shoes would: I gotta pee on her. What a philosopher.
S: Scott constantly getting his words mixed up is a brilliant consistent gag which we have in this picture. We have an all timer example of that coming up, which is an all timer of a line but this one here, it makes the atmosphere so awkward and only Michael Cera could deliver it.
JT: And of course, the physical wheel showing his dialogue paths was hilarious too.
S: Amazing stuff. He’s gone to pee, in the toilet, not on her and Sex Bob-Omb have got an opening gig coming up!
JT: That they do, and they get a rounding response of not total hatred. Just total blank stares, which is not good but not the worst? And then it was time for the CLASH AT DEMONHEAD!! oh no OH YEAH!! HELLO AGAIN, FRIEND OF A FRIEND!! This is the most iconic scene of the movie, bar none.
S: Yeah this is the most iconic scene in the movie bar none and it’s my favorite scene in this movie. I don’t really know if I can do it justice by explaining why I love it. I’d strongly urge people who’ve never watched this movie to watch this scene and you’ll see why it’s excellent. The way it’s shot, the lighting, the music, the cuts, the facial expressions, the visuals. It’s legendary.
JT: Yeah the raw energy of it is unmatched. Like you said, how it’s all constructed is one of a kind, and of course the song is a banger. Again, much love to the rest of the music in the movie, but Black Sheep is just the best song. Shoutout to Metric for the track!!
S: It’s honestly one of my favorite songs at the moment, I always love listening to it. Both versions are great, but James, which one would you pick? The original song by Metric or the Brie Larson?
JT: I think I just have to default to the Brie Larson version, just because that was the version I heard first and it’s what instantly comes up in my brain. It’s crazy that it took until last year to finally come out on streaming, but I’m glad it’s actually out!
S: Listening to the full song with Brie’s vocals is really cool and this is one of the other Scott Pilgrim songs I know on bass. It’s a really cool one to learn, and sounds good if you play with a pick or with your fingers. Also, bass talk, Todd Ingram seems to be performing on a Fender Mustang bass. Which is a Fender model that is a shorter scale bass, about four inches shorter than your average bass. Of course Fender, easily the biggest guitar and bass manufacturers in the world. The Mustang model is one of their two other models outside of their jazz and precision range. Famous players include Tina Weymouth from Talking Heads, Kim Gordon from Sonic Youth and Justin Meldal-Johnson from Nine Inch Nails.
JT: Of course, Todd!! How could I have neglected to mention him!! Of course, during the Clash at Demonhead’s performance, Ramona points out that she knows the guy on bass, Envy’s new boyfriend. Of course, he is Todd Ingram, her 3rd Evil Ex. Now battling the Exes has already been trouble, but now this one has a personal connection to Scott. With every passing second, more gasoline is getting thrown onto the fire.
S: And how do we know he’s the third ex? Well, because after this brilliant scene, we see that he is wearing a t-shirt with a big number 3 on it. Gotta make sure for the people up in row z that they can see it. Love how Scott is wearing his Billy Corgan, Smashing Pumpkins “Zero” t-shirt as well.
JT: On top of that, when they go backstage and everyone is hanging out with tension so thick you can cut it with a knife, there’s a poster on the wall with the Number 3 too. It’s fun details like that that have led me to rewatch this film as much as I have. I like the story, character, action, jokes and all that, but there are those elements that just feel new every time I watch it.
S: That’s part of what makes Edgar Wright such a great director and why his movies are so rewatchable. He fills the screen with so many details, elements and hidden easter eggs which you can always find on a rewatch. It’s the same feeling I have with classic seasons of The Simpsons and the cornetto trilogy as well.
JT: So backstage, Julie tries to suck up to superstar Envy, but it’s clear that Envy and Todd’s focus is on Scott and Ramona. This includes when Knives tried to interject, as she had suddenly realized she had kissed the lips that had kissed her favorite musician. What does she get out of that? Todd only punches the highlights out of her hair!! A-1 way to show Todd sucks but also is big and scary. He’s also incorrigible (he doesn’t know the meaning of the word, like literally). At this point, Scott is fed up and calls him a cocky cock! He’s gotta pay for his transgressions! Of course in the comics, this happens after Envy & Todd continued to insult Ramona. I honestly think this could’ve used that. But regardless when Scott swings at Todd, he gets a bit held up. Literally. Todd has psychic Vegan Powers, which is just so random but fun. This movie/series never runs out of quirky stuff.
S: Vegan Powers, just such a perfect trait to give a character who happens to be vegan. The way they talk up the powers for this cocky cock is just amazing as well, essentially it’s along the lines of “he’s vegan and therefore he’s better than you”.
JT: Seriously, like he goes on to explain vegans can unlock their powers through one of those “you only use 10% of your brain” quack stories, and it just makes for a different scenario other than the typical fist fight. Of course, Scott tried using his fists, and that saw him get through a wall and into a garbage can (with a 3 on it), then he got launched into the air for a good long while. Once he finally comes down, Scott asks for a backstory from Ramona in a desperate hope that there’s some sort of weakness he has. Ramona lets him know that she broke up with Lucas for Todd, they were a couple of angry teens together, smashing up stuff and all that. Todd punched a hole in the moon of her, which is kinda nuts. But then she dumped him when it became clear he’d be going to Vegan Academy (where you train your vegan powers). Todd cuts them off, Scott tells him he doesn’t like him, then Todd drops the hammer on him: Tell that to the cleaning lady on Monday. Because he’ll be dust by Monday. And the cleaning lady wouldn’t come over the weekend, because it’s Friday now and they typically have weekends off. In addition to one liner, this movie has anti-one-liners.
S: This movie gets me honestly, because I’ve as many good anti-one-liners as I do actually decent one liners. The over explaining of his one liner is what makes it complete too, because nobody has a fucking clue what he’s on about. I must say, Brandon Routh was very much maligned for his role in Superman Returns but here, I think he’s another really good addition. I don’t think he’s on the level of Lucas Lee but man he’s certainly up there close to him. Props to Routh here.
JT: I will say, I don’t know a ton about how Superman Returns was received like, culturally. I read the wiki once, and obviously the fact it had no sequels doesn’t speak to anything positive, but as far as I know Routh was positively received for his part. Like it wasn’t his fault he was given strange material. That said, you’re definitely right that he does a good job in this. The fact he’s as big and tall as he is makes him intimidating, but he does a good job and being a dumbass of sorts with his flubbed lines, and the sort of lameness that comes with bragging about being a Super-Vegan.
S: It’s been fucking ages since I’ve seen Superman Returns, honestly. I think it may easily be 10 or more years, I definitely saw it before Man of Steel. I do remember some of the story being strange alright though. He’s great here though, clearly a meathead who’s trying to act more intelligent than he actually is but makes himself look more dumb in the process.
JT: Well, even with that quip, he still overpowers Scott and sends him back through the wall. And as he floats into the room, we get a different sort of battle because Scott beckons him with Bass!! We’ve got a Beefy Bass Battle!! Fun fact! In the Comics, Crash and The Boys ( weren’t killed by Matthew Patel, they actually opened for Clash at Demonhead, and they were here to back Scott up against big bad Todd since through training they can manipulate sound “through hard work and willpower alone”. Also, they’re now renamed “The Boys!! And Crash”, because of band politics I guess. So that’s neat!
S: Oh man, I actually kind of like how The Boys and Crash are Scott’s backup against Super Vegan Boy. That’s quite cool to be honest! It sounds like it makes them important. I do think it’s good that they went the way they did in the movie, since this is basically Scott’s battle, he’s gotta do it by himself.
JT: Yeah it’s nice for Scott to be fighting one on one with Todd, given he’s fighting for Ramona. Now, as our resident Bass Expert, would you like to take us through this bass battle? Explain how it went, any sort of bass related things you noticed?
S: Well when the battle begins, it begins with a fairly simple opening riff from Scott, it says that the notes which show up on the screen are a “D” but what he’s actually playing is a “B”, he’s playing the 7th fret on the top string, or the E string on his Rickenbacker. That’s only a nitpick on my behalf to be fair, it doesn’t really bother me, just thought it’d be interesting to point out.
JT: That’s the music equivalent of us saying “Well that’s technically just a Crossface and not an STF because he didn’t trap the leg” or things of that ilk that we’ve done on here before. Makes sense to me!
S: I think what I learned from this bass battle is that Scott is very much a four note man, which is effective yes but Todd man, he fucking shreds and gets some really cool riffs in. You’d think he’d be the guy with the Rickenbacker and Scott would be with the Mustang. Gotta hand it to Todd though, shorter scale bass for him means less traveling around the fretboard so a good strategy on his end.
JT: So I guess it appears that sadly for Scott, Todd is in fact a better bass player, and that at least is partially why his band is bigger. But that’s not even the big issue, the big issue is that he’s gets blown the fuck back by Todd’s boisterous bass bombardment. His chances at completely running the Evil Ex gauntlet are growing slim.
S: He’s totally getting ass handed to him, I’d say nearly more so than the Lucas Lee fight. Todd’s vegan powers are just proving to be too strong, or are they???
JT: Yeah and it seems Scott has no choice but to concede, offering a coffee for the victor. But Todd, he’s too smart for Scott, his veganity is too powerful. He knows that Scott was handing him a coffee with Half & Half in it!! He’s trying to get him to break his veganity and lose his powers! But Todd so through his clever plot with his mind reading powers. Or not because it turns out Scott tricked him by thinking real hard about pouring into one cup but actually pouring into the other! He’s got him! And by god King, that’s the Vegan Police’s music!! They’re here, and they’ve got their eyes on Todd!! That’s his 3rd violation, he’s going to lose his powers. Todd tries to play coy, this is only his 1st violation! Doesn’t he get 3 strikes? Well it turns out, first he partook in Gelato! Wait, Gelato isn’t vegan? It’s milk and eggs, bitch! Ok fine fine, but that’s just one violation, and it’s a silly mistake! Surely he wouldn’t have—oh the other is Chicken Parm. That goes against everything vegan. That might in fact, be the least vegan food. Envy is shook, as Todd is hit with the De-Veganizing Ray, and then gets dealt the death blow from Scott!! You once were a Vegone, now you will be-gone!! And just as Todd is catching up with the word “Vegone”, he eats a Katsuyori Shibata level Headbutt that causes him to explode into coins. K-O!!
S: I loved this bit, the Vegan Police is such an underrated bit in this movie. They’re such a memorable pairing and they have great chemistry, the little high five they do after they’ve de-veganised Todd got a big smile from myself. The “vegone, be-gone” line too? Fantastic line, one of the movie’s most memorable. He headbutted him so hard that he burst into coins. I do love the overdramatisation of veganism in general, like it’s very tongue in cheek because this is probably what people thought hardcore vegans were like.
JT: Yeah, veganism was still a pretty foreign and strange concept to people in 2010, let alone in 2006 when the original comic was released. It’s a nice little quirky that makes Todd different from the rest. Speaking of different, this actually is pretty different in the comic. Would you like to hear about that?
S: Do tell me! I’m excited to hear what they did differently in the comic!
JT: Alright so first, it’s important to note that the timeline for the comics is a lot longer than the movie. In the comics, the whole story takes place over a series of months, not just days. So the meeting and highlight punching happens all the same, but after Scott is thrown back by Todd’s vegan powers, a fight is arranged at a place called Honest Eds. It’s a local landmark, like a big old discount store. So in the store they’re supposed to grab whatever they can and then fight, with Envy & Ramona making a deal for Todd to not use his vegan powers. However, this only ends up backfiring as Todd gets overwhelmed and causes the store to implode. Basically, it’s a big no contest, and it’s inevitable they’ll fight again soon. Sex Bob Omb has another show, opening for Clash at Demonhead coming up at Lee’s Place, where they’re gonna battle. Before it, we see Todd intentionally order gelato knowing it’s milk and eggs, and then also cheat on Envy with the band’s robotic arm drummer Lynette! Before Sex Bomb Omb performs, the whole Pilgrim crew see this infidelity, and Ramona tries to tell Envy, after all there are two craters in the Moon, since he did it for Ramona first. Of course, Envy thinks she’s just being a bitch and they has fight! But Scott makes the save by hitting her weak spot (right behind her knee). As this finishes up, Todd walks out of the bathroom, with Lynette, and her underwear on his head. Envy fires Lynette by smashing her robotic arm, then knees Todd in the balls!! Todd then throws back Envy with his powers, and flips off the crowd! This leads to the aforementioned bass battle, then the vegan police and the Headbutt to wrap us up. Structurally pretty similar, but spicy differences in details, wouldn’t you say so?
S: Yeah there’s a lot more going on with the Scott/Todd feud in the comic than there is in the movie, even though this evil ex storyline probably gets the most coverage throughout the movie. What you’ve told me there sounds like it would take up probably a good quarter or a third for one of the comics. I like the idea of Todd being such a douche to the point where Envy even turns on him, because he cheats on her. That does sound cool because at the end of this scene, Scott calls Envy, Natalie and she kind of has a moment of realization about what she’s become.
JT: Yeah I will say, after this whole ordeal, it’s not like she’s happy with Scott after this. Like in the movie, it feels like their relationship is at least back to being cordial. But she’s still quite salty at Scott in the comics, because like even if your cheater ex has been exposed, it doesn’t mean you’re suddenly happy with the guy who kicked his ass. And unlike in the movie, she will be back later, but I’ll bring that up when the time comes.
S: That’s what I was going to add to that last bit of mine as well because in the movie, with that scene, it feels like she could make an appearance later on but that doesn’t come to fruition, sadly.
JT: Be that as it may, this whole Todd/Envy section is a total blast, with some of the most quotable lines and memorable moments of the whole movie.
S: Yeah I think this may actually be my favorite section of the movie, it takes up a good portion of the movie, and for good reason because Envy has been a character who’s been mentioned since the start of the film. So the near hour of wait until her arrival builds up anticipation for their eventual meeting is definitely effective.
JT: The buildup was well worth it! Now Scott has put his baggage with Envy behind him, and he’s reaching the halfway point of his journey!
S: He’s halfway through his journey but my god is this poor guy’s energy and motivation just being sapped out of him. Three exes down and he looks absolutely weathered. Give that man a warm cup of liver damage tea.
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Well honey, I’m a little bi-furious!
JT: Ain’t no rest for the weary! Scott’s got no time to lick his wounds, he’s gotta go check on Ramona, because things aren’t exactly on steady ground right now. Scott is understably tired from having to battle Evil Exes, and Ramona is understandably tired of having to drag up her baggage and the fact that Scott is tired about the Exs. He knew the deal when he got with her! He could be a better sport about it y’know! But it’s mostly about her dirty laundry, she’d much rather live in the moment.
S: Yeah to be fair, Scott has made his bed in this situation and now he’s gotta lay in that bed. If he read that email properly, he wouldn’t be so stroppy and moody. As well as considering drinking? Alcohol?! Scott Pilgrim??? This can’t be good..
JT: Yeah he never drinks, but he is now. Not good, although again, this whole “Ex-Boyfriend” thing is getting to him. Ramona again corrects him, saying it’s “Exes”, and before he has to ask why she keeps correcting him, he gets his answer. The ninja lady from before is back, slamming Scott off the bar counter. Ramona in surprise says “Roxy?”, wait a minute! She knows this ninja? Oh boy does she know her. With a knowing look from Ramona and a hilarious little ding tied to Roxy’s raised eyebrows, Scott realizes. This is why Ramona kept saying exes. Or as Scott put it, “you had a sexy phase?”. Naturally, Scott is handling the subject with all the tact of a 22 year old in 2010.
S: Handled about as well as the thought of a previous lesbian relationship could have been 12 years ago. Just count your lucky stars that this is 2010 and not 2000/2001 because we probably could’ve gotten a smidge of American Pie 2 in it. Not like hateful in the slightest, but like “lesbians = sexy, but only if they’re hot duhhhhh”.
JT: Yeah I think clearly the point of this is A) Scott is a doofus and B) Ramona has a LOT of baggage. Like in 2022 I don’t think folks experimenting with their sexuality is a big deal, it’s their life! But for the story, that’s just another part of her past that she’s hidden away and now it’s coming to a head. She says it was just a phase and it meant nothing, which pisses Roxy off. And then she makes the crucial mistake of saying she was only “a little bi-curious”. Well Roxy, she’s BI-FURIOUS!! But before she can land her pretty sick RVD level Spin Kick, Ramona catches her! To reference ECW again, it looks like we’ve got ourselves a CAATTTTT FIIIGHHHTTT!!
S: Ramona just saved Scott from a TOTAL ELIMINATION at the hands of R Double and now it looks like Ramona is fighting Scott’s battle for him this time and I must say, I think these two have a great fight. It showcased that Ramona is also a bit of a badass too.
JT: Yeah that’s one pro of the longer run time in the comics: We get a few more Ramona fights! But this one is all the more necessary because of that, it really puts a lot more of Ramona’s own fate into her own hands. She’s the one who defends Scott, she says she’d rather be dead than with Gideon, whoever that is. Plus she is just generally cool because it’s a weapon fight! Ramona pulls her giant hammer out of her sub space backpack, and Roxy has got her belt-chain thing. It’s a fun fight that once again, is pretty much all original material! Plus, Roxy has the fun line of calling Ramona a “Hasbian”.
S: This movie really has so many examples of great and clever wordplay, doesn’t it? Hasbian? That’s really clever! Were the comics filled with little puns and wordplay as often as it is in the movie?
JT: I didn’t note every line in the comics (mostly because I just wanted to read them and let the story soak over me for the first time) but a lot of great lines from the movie did make their debut in the comics! But there are also plenty of movie exclusives, pretty sure Hasbian is one for example.
S: Yeah the Hasbian line certainly feels like it was a movie exclusive addition. The girl who plays Roxy Richter, I feel like I only know her from Arrested Development and that’s only from watching clips of that show and other people referencing it.
JT: Well I bet there’s somewhere else you know her from, but I bet you don’t know it yet! I mean, I’ll be honest, I almost forgot about it till I checked her Wikipedia page just now for any interesting roles. Seán, have you heard of a little cartoon called “Avatar: The Last Airbender”?
S: Of course I have! It’s something which is always recommended to me but I’ve never actually got around to watching. Did she have a voice role in that show? Or are you about to swerve me and tell me that she was in the live action film, The Last Airbender?
JT: I didn’t realize you’ve never seen it! You better eat your vegetables and get right on that young man! And yes, she not only had a role, she was only the principal female character, Katara!!
S: Nice one! So she obviously was the voice of Katara and not in the 2010 live action flop which came out the same year as this. It’s kind of like how Jean Ralphio was in Parks and Rec, who is played by Ben Schwartz, is an esteemed voice actor as well as being a good side character in a sitcom.
JT: Yeah that just serves as a reminder that voice actors, they’ve got other aspirations too! Just because they can voice act doesn’t mean they’re meant to be hidden their whole career. Round of applause for Mae Whitman!
S: Absolutely! Well hold your applause for now because she’s currently caught up in a scrap with her ex-girlfriend!
JT: That’s right! So there’s a pretty cool shot where their fight shatters the disco ball, meaning we get a shot of Roxy, Ramona and Scott in the reflection as its pieces fall. Roxy manages to yank the hammer away from Rammy, but she then nails a huge ax kick to Roxy. RR wants to send RF back to GG? Well he’s a creep, you’re a bitch, and you all deserve each other. While that was a good shot, Roxy informs Flowers that since this is a league battle, Pilgrim has to be the one to defeat her. Scott doesn’t really like the idea of hitting a girl, but he doesn’t have a choice, and Ramona goes full Ratatouille mode, commanding his hands to defend and fight back. Roxy manages to use her ninja teleportation to split them up and then declares “You’re BF is about to get F’d in the b”, but Ramona tells Scott about Roxy’s weak point behind the back of her knee!! Roxy experiences ecstasy, and then explodes (into coins) all over them for a tag team victory!!
S: Death by Orgasm, the Roxy Richter Story. I do think R² is probably remembered the least out of the league of evil exes, but I think she definitely has her moments in her appearances. The fight is definitely memorable because Ramona basically controls Scott for the fight, clever, I like that. There are some memorable lines too, so even though she’s remembered the least, she still does enough in my opinion to make her time spent on screen memorable to the viewer.
JT: Yeah Roxy unfortunately gets a bit shafted as far as timing goes. She shows up before the extremely memorable stuff with Envy & Todd, then doesn’t get a lot of time herself because of how much time is needed for the Envy & Todd stuff, plus the finale. With this movie’s focus on keeping a fast pace, some people were obviously gonna get cut a little short. But, if you have any interest in Roxy, she has all of Volume 4 (Scott Pilgrim Gets It Together) to be the main antagonist! And volume 4 as a whole is one of if not the most different volumes compared to the movie. So again, I highly recommend the comics to everyone who enjoys the movie, but I recommend this specifically for all of y’all who saw Roxy and thought she deserved more screen time.
S: Now I’ve never read the comics at all but hearing that Roxy has an entire volume of the comic book series sounds pretty damn cool. If the comics are basically an elongated version of the movie with lots of other added elements and bits added to the main story, then I’d be interested in reading them for sure.
JT: I would definitely recommend that, especially as a way to give back to series creator Bryan Lee O’Malley. He gets credited in the movie, but as the director Edgar Wright gets a lot of credit for how fun this movie is (and rightfully so). So it’s nice to kick it back to O’Malley, since it’s his baby after all!
S: I see, I see and are you telling me you read all those volumes in preparation for this review? All six of them?
JT: Well someone had to check how it compares to the source material! And I mean, like 160 pages of a comic are very different from a book. Plus, I had a blast reading!
S: Well you’ve certainly tempted me with the idea of reading the comics now, that’s for sure. What about our movie story? What’s the aftermath of this fourth evil ex showdown, James?
JT: Well, despite their tag team victory, Scott & Ramona still aren’t in high spirits. Scott orders 2 drinks, and Ramona remarks “Guess we really don’t know much about each other do we”. Scott sasses her about the evil exes, she badgers him about being drunk (I’ve only had 1 drink, he says while holding up 2 fingers) then Ramona rubs her neck and tells him she wants to split for the night. Scott gets concerned, she reassured him that she just saved his ass so no, not in that way. Then Scott really pushes it by asking if there’s anyone at the bar she hasn’t slept with, she lashes back with “you’re just another evil ex waiting to happen.” Not good Seán, not good.
S: Yeah he’s just being a prick here, I like the character of Scott but he’d certainly be doing himself a disservice with these comments. These are the comments an angry drunk would make towards someone, not doing himself any favors. You can’t get sassy and then throw further insults following said sass about a subject. Do better, Pilgrim.
JT: Well, we’re about to head into the final act of the movie, so I guess it’s only natural that our hero Scott Pilgrim is at his lowest point so far. You’ve got a lot to prove on this final turn, Pilgrim!
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Totally Badass
S: So it’s time for our main event? Or our first of TWO MAIN EVENTS! It’s the next round in the Battle of the Bands, but this isn’t any band, this is a duo, who have both dated Ramona?
JT: Yeah so next up are Kyle & Ken Katayanagi, they are twins who are, as Stephen Stills put it, totally badass. Ramona dated twins? Honestly, both the movie and the books both pretty much blow past this one haha. Like, they both feel that they’ve got bigger fish to fry than to do another 2 Evil Ex stories.
S: Yeah these guys are probably bigger jobbers than Matthew Patel in all honesty because at least with Patel, we got a backstory for him. These lads are total jobber fodder for Scott and Sex Bob-Omb, sorry for the spoilers guys. These are set up for the main boss battle. These guys aren’t even Boom Boom, they’re not even Hammer Bros, I’d say they’re like Reznor from Super Mario World or maybe Boomerang Bros.
JT: If Patel was Heath Slater, these two are like Mace & T-Bar from Retribution. Wow, JT & Seán go an episode without mentioning Retribution challenge! But seriously, even in the comics these two aren’t much of the focus. They’re given more screen time, but again, still not much of a spotlight. So in the comics, they’re built up as Robotics guys, so on multiple occasions Scott has to fight a Robot they built. But like, they’re more of cutaway gags. Like Ramona and Kim will be talking, then one of them will say “I wonder how Scott is doing in there” and then we see him dropping a flying elbow or something.
S: We can’t get away from Retribution, and no, we will never review Retribution and the Thunderdome, EVER. Anyways, I do like the idea of cutaways where Scott is fighting a giant robot while Kim and Ramona are just chatting. That’s a good use of the cutaway gimmick. What’s their gimmick here? They’re DJs, I’m trying to figure out what genre of dance music they’d be, probably not trance or rave. I’d say they’re in the same category as Daft Punk during their Discovery era, Disco kind of house music. Quick shoutout to that album too by the way, honestly one of the best albums ever made in my opinion. Definitely one of the best in this century.
JT: Absolutely! Also, check out Daft Punk’s new single “Get Lucky” if you get the chance. Sound of the summer. Now, let’s not act like the Twins are bad. They’re not, they’re just lesser. The setup? Well, the battle of the bands continues, and they’re gonna face Sex Bob Omb? How? Well they’re just gonna play, at the same time! In reality, that sounds terrible, but for a fictionalized battle of the bands? Awesome idea. Also fun note, Scott wore a shirt with 4 ½ on it during the Sex Bob Omb BOTB prep meeting.
S: I liked that, it was basically a Fantastic 4 t-shirt with a ½ next to the 4. Amp vs. Amp is such a cool idea in fiction for a battle of the bands round, it’s essentially who rocks the loudest and the best. They’re both on first and that poster needed more exclamation marks!
JT: And as if Scott doesn’t have enough motivation, who does he spot in the audience but Ramona, who is with some smarmy looking fella. Kim even tells him that he should talk to Ramona before she leaves, not that she cares though. Kim promises she does not care.
S: Yeah who’s this Howard Wolowitz/Milhouse looking motherfucker? I don’t know about you James, but he seems like a bit of a fucker if you ask me.
JT: Well if Scott wants to get to him and more importantly, Ramona, he’s gotta get through the Twins first. They hit the first note, literally blowing the roof off the place! Sex Bob Omb responds of course with one of their biggest moves: We are Sex Bo Bomb, we’re hear to make you think about death and get sad and stuff”! Cue Threshold!! Another garage rock banger!!
S: This is the song which I saw on YouTube which in doing so, made me go out of my way to watch this movie. This song is a fucking belter, not even just as a movie original song, as a song in general, it’s a really kick ass song. Lots of energy to it, great bass, great guitar, very effective drums, sounds great. It’s kick ass, not the movie which came out a few months before this.
JT: Want a real fun crossover? Kick-Ass stars Christopher Mintz-Plasse, who played the extremely memorable McLovin in Superbad, which starred Michael Cera!! Full circle!! Of course, I would be a fool not to mention the actual battle. Both bands play and summon Stands, animals to fight on their behalf! 5 & 6 summon a pair of freezing cold blue Ice Dragons, but Sex Bob Omb summon a green electrical Gorilla!! The battle is short but sweet, with Sex Bob Omb overpowering the Twins, with their Gorilla slamming the dragons into each other before they crash down on top of the Katayanagis for Scott’s fifth and sixth victory!! Fun little detail I noticed: Scott’s got green eyes, Ramona has green hair, coincidence that the Gorilla was green? Potentially. But maybe not!
S: I thought it was a really cool visual, I liked how they were animated CGI animals which were generated from the energy of the amps and the pedals. That’s another example of how well music is visualized in this movie, this is the best example of it in my opinion and this scene kicked ass. Katayanagis? Not one line of dialogue between them, short but sweet.
JT: They showed up, looked cool, got their asses beat and left. Perfect jobber stuff. Now…wait, what is Scott doing? Getting a life that’s what! No literally, he gets an Extra Life, video game style. From there, he makes his way out to Ramona and he is as serious as ever. He lays it out to Ramona, he knows that she plays aloof and mysterious to avoid bringing up the past and that she has valid reasons to keep that past out of sight and out of mind, but he doesn’t care about any of that. Truth is, “I’m in lesbians with you”. Incredible dismount, nice rotation, and absolutely fucks the landing. God dammit Scott.
S: The approach is the most genuine and heartwarming he can be, he means the most amount of well he possibly can, but bless him he completely fluffs his line. Quite literally, although to be fair, it is a funny and quotable line.
JT: We appreciate the callback, Ramona doesn’t. So that seems like it’s it! Scott Pilgrim x Ramona Flowers is done! And signals in our official introduction to Gideon Graves, record producer extraordinaire and 7th Ex!! As the song that plays as he walks on screen proclaims, he’s got Ramona under his thumb! He tells Scott he’s got no hard feelings, it’s just business and he’d hate for there to be bad blood between Exes. And to make things worse, he’s got the band too!! As G-Man Graves himself, he really dug the Sex Bobs whole thing. I mean they’ve got a smokin hot Redhead on drums (prompting a “Fucking excuse me?” look from Kim). Scott isn’t gonna just bow down to Gideon after he stole his lady, but the rest of the band has no such qualms. This is their big break after all!! It’s not like Scott has been around for practice much anyways! They sign right on Scott’s back, with Young Neil taking Scott’s place (he knows Scott’s part after all!). Seán, we may have jumped the gun when we said that Scott’s low point was after the Roxy fight. This is much, much worse.
S: Oh man, this is as close to rock bottom as Scott or anyone can get, in the moral sense. Fuck me, this guy has his girlfriend stolen from him from the most evil of exes, his band gets signed to his label AND his band/friends ditch him IMMEDIATELY for the younger, fresher, more quiet bassist in Young Neil. Man, Scott, I feel for ya buddy. I’d sooner be sad and tired drunk for an entire weekend than live this reality.
JT: In any story, this would be a real tiring and depressing ordeal. Like it definitely was in the comics, and those took place over a few months. Though this movie really doesn’t specify its time frame, it’s shot like it all happens in a short amount of time. Like, 2-4 weeks at most. All that plus all the events of the film so far in that time frame would be enough to put me in an Undertaker level Vegetative State.
S: Awh man stop, you’d be fucking emotionally, physically and mentally knackered if all of this happened to ya in the space of a few weeks. You’d need a holiday in Barbados to recharge the batteries after all of this shit. Like I can have a busy-ish week sometimes and that’ll just zap my energy away. If I went through what Scott has gone through? I’d be the youngest man taking a sabbatical ever.
JT: Can’t imagine that them fights would be easy on the joints either. So not only is he absolutely exhausted emotionally, he’s gotta be exhausted physically too!!
S: Between the bass playing and the actual battles. He’s gotta be like CM Punk in late 2013 at this stage. Let’s just hope he didn’t shit himself in one of his battles. Stay away from those z packs, kid.
JT: With everything in shambles, will Scott Pilgrim just give up? Find out after these messages, as Raw rolls on!!
S: The Power Hour will continue, in picture in picture, don’t you go anywhere!
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I’m Doing It for Me
JT: So we’re coming around the final turn now, and let’s face it, things are looking pretty sad for Scott. We get a montage of Scott being depressed, smacking his head against a lamppost dully, with Beck’s rendition of Ramona, aka what that song would’ve been like if Scott finished it, playing all the while. As a whole, it makes for a pretty sad scene. But hey, it’s a nice song ain’t it?
S: It is a nice song, Beck does a good job of it as you’d expect him to and we also get the very giffable moment of the movie where Scott is slightly hitting his head against a lamp-post and we got the old “thonk” effect.
JT: Once again, funny for us, not for Scott. The depressed Scott sits on the swings, accompanied by Stacey, trying to comfort her brother. She wants to know, does he really see a future with this girl? And Scott naturally asks, “with jet packs?”. Scott goes home, seemingly ready to call it quits, with Wallace telling him it might not be bad for him to just try and move on. Of course, Gideon calls!! He once again wants to make sure there’s no bad feeling, bragging to Scott that his brand new Chaos Theater that is opening in Toronto will be opened by the Sex Bobs (he literally never gets the band’s name right once). And again, no hard feelings by!! Wallace says “what a perfect asshole”, and it wasn’t a gay thing! He thinks Gideon sucks! And Scott should kick his ass!! And with that fire light, Scott is ready to go!! We get a dramatic gearing up, with less dramatic shoe tying, before Scott sprints to the Chaos Theater to kick Gideon’s teeth down his throat! Now before we get to our MAIN EVENT, I think we gotta talk about Wallace’s assertion, that Gideon is a perfect asshole. Jason Schwartzman is just great isn’t he?
S: Yeah he’s really good at being a total condescending, arrogant prick. Like his character is that of one who you’d love to punch in the face because of how smug and condescending they are.
JT: Well luckily, it seems like we’re gonna get that! Scott’s only the final level, but in order to get to GG, he’s gotta break into his new club! And there’s a bouncer at the door, asking for a password! Scott literally says “whatever”, and that works! But there’s a second bouncer with a second password? He can’t luck out again, right? Nope! A shrug and a grumble is a password, and Scott is in!! Scott is in, the Sex Bob Ombs look all sell out-y in ill-fitting suits and Kim in a maid costume? Which sick perv booked this shit? Oh, the one sitting on a big throne in the middle of the club, with Ramona sitting at his side, that’s who. I’ll say, though Gideon has received background buildup leading up to this, his whole presentation is sooooo”Final Boss”.
S: He gets proper Bowser treatment if he had Peach sat by his side. This dude is perched on his throne with THE Sex Bob-Ombs playing for his chaos theatre. What a total prick final boss he looks like here. Also, it seems that Stephen Stills has upgraded from a semi-acoustic, acoustic shaped guitar to a black semi-acoustic electric guitar. Young Neil, he’s playing a black Rickenbacker 4003. An upgrade from Scott’s disheveled Ricky.
JT: It’s like the man is hardly a music producer at all!! How are you gonna sign a garage rock band and then immediately get them nicer clothes and instruments!! You’re gonna kill their underground vibe!!
S: I’ve gotta say though, I love the visual of them in suits now playing with their pristine, brand new instruments. The fact Kim is in a maid outfit though? You’re a creep, GG. Hope you get your ass kicked.
JT: Well, that’s what Scott plans to do. Gideon insists there’s no use crying over spilled coke (because Scott drinks Coke, get it?) and asks Scott “You want to fight me, for her”. Was that not clear? No seriously, was that not clear? Because yes, he is, and just like that, a sort rises from his chest, Scott Pilgrim has earned the power of Love!! With a rousing introduction of “We’re Sex Bob Omb and weare here to make money and sell out and stuff 🖕🏻” we get “We Are Sex Bob Omb” from intro again and the bell rings on our main event!! All sorts of goons come out of nowhere to fight Scott, but he slices through them with ease, leaving behind corpse outlines made of coins. It’s just him and Gideon now!! They dive at each other, swinging at the same time…and Gideon wins the quick time event!! Scott falls back down the throne stairs, with his Sword smashing into little hearts!!
S: He’s lost his sword now! Like when Sting broke Triple H’s sledgehammer with the bat at Mania 31 five years after this movie’s release. That’s the power of love for ya, it’s a curious thing.
JT: Just when it seems like all hope is lost, by God!! That’s Knives Chau’s music!! She runs in, not to take on Gideon, but to take on Ramona!! She’s finally fighting her for stealing her man from her! It’s time to Chau down!! Now we get a cool double fight, with GG vs SP and KC vs RF happening at the same time!! They’re even getting all the dialogue on beat! But before either Ramona or Knives can hurt each other, Scott breaks it up. He cheated! Really with both of them. Well on Knives with Ramona. What’s the difference? Well he says Ramona wasn’t wrong but BZZZT WRONG. And just as this is happening, GIDEON WITH A SWORD THROUGH HIS CHEST!! We get an incredible reaction shot from SBB, Ramona and Knives as Scott collapses to the floor. Gideon calls him a cheater, but he knows you can’t cheat death. What an awesome version of the “You Died” type of cutscene in a video game.
S: The proper bird’s eye view as the camera goes further above as it pans out from Scott’s defeated body. Man, it sucks to die. Especially being killed by that guy. I thought this part was done really well. As we’ll get into in a bit, we learn that there was energy and passion from Scott’s end but in a few moments, we see he has the power of hindsight which aids him greatly.
JT: So it turns out for Scott, the afterlife is a desert, where he is all alone and things suck. Well, not all alone, because Ramona is there, consolidating him for dying. He feels like he should’ve done something different, fought for her more or told her how he really feels, with no slip ups or anything. She says it’s not his fault, Gideon’s got a way into her head. Not even in like the toxic, obsessive sort of way. Like he literally does. With a chip in her neck. That’s majorly fucked up. Maybe what Scott should’ve thought about was if Ramona was really the one he was fighting for. Scott is bummed out because he learned something, but now he’s dead so what does it matter? Well, remember the extra life he got earlier? Todah!! Right on cue!! Scott’s back in the game!! Back to the start of the final level, but he’s back nevertheless!!
S: Turns out that 1-Up which he picked up after the amp vs. amp battle was of value! Now this time, he knows what he needs to fight for, he’s got the right mindset going into this final boss battle and my god he’s got the bad motherfucker walk down to a tee. Also, Gideon is quite easily the most slimy fucker in this movie and he’s not been on screen as much. Between all the shit we mentioned prior AND inserting a chip into Ramona’s, evil bastard.
JT: Might as well call him “Stone Cold” Scott Pilgrim the way he’s power walking in, annihilating the two bouncers this time around. He walks past Comeau who says “The comic is better than the movie”, as a call out to people like me. Before Scott challenges Gideon again, he dubs “Young Neil” officially “Neil” and he says “Sorry about me” to Kim. He loves the new band, they’re what they’ve always strived to be. Go on without him. Now as for Gideon, he once again poses the question “You’re gonna fight me, for her?”. But this time, Scott’s got a new answer. He’s fighting Gideon for himself! A new sword forms, Scott earns the Power of Self Respect!! We are Sex Bob Omb, and we’re hear to watch Scott Pilgrim kick your teeth in!! We get a 2x speed version of the Scott vs minions fight, and he wins the QTE!! On top of that, he knows Knives in there and is immediately able to cut her off after one flying kick to Ramona (which causes the chip on her neck to glow). Stepping between them, he acknowledges that it wasn’t Ramona who hurt her, he hurt her, he cheated on both of them and was wrong to do so. Character growth!! But before things can get too sappy Gideon steps in to remind them, this is a fight!! He uses a Naruto hand signal type chest code and loads in a Sword for himself, with a big health bar to boot!! Awesome stuff!! Now this is a final battle!
S: Absolutely. This is what the final battle should be in this movie, the hero should have strong motives, it should be high energy and intense. This has those things in spades. It’s class that the second go around, Scott remembers what happened in round one so he uses his knowledge of what happened there to do everything differently in the second attempt.
JT: Before we move on, I’ll ask you some questions about that round of Scott trying to fix his mistakes. What do you think of him gaining the power of self respect instead of the power of love? What do you think that says about his character?
S: The thing is, the idea of it should be self centered and it doesn’t do himself justice at all but the fact he makes amends with Kim, supports the band’s new direction, and admits to Knives and Ramona that he cheated on both of them does make him a proper protagonist. He acknowledges that he was a self-centered jerk without realizing it and now he wants to show that he’s a good friend, which he was in the movie but he was also extremely selfish at times. I also think that the power of love is important as well, he’s done all of this for Ramona. Maybe it’s supposed to tell us that if you go with your head over your heart, it will benefit you more perhaps?
JT: Personally, I think it says more about this being an internal journey for Scott. Rather than it being about him finding “true love”, it’s about learning to be a better person. Like you think that it’s all about him getting with Ramona, but with this twist it re-centers the story around Scott’s personal growth. He’s learned to do things for other people, how to make tough decisions, and admit when he’s wrong. He’s not fighting Gideon because he has to for Ramona, he’s doing it because he needs to prove he’s not like Gideon, he’s not just in this for his own gain. That’s how I see this anyways.
S: Yeah I’d be inclined to agree with you on that one, I do think he is definitely proving to Ramona that he’s not like the rest of them, he’s not an asshole deep down and he’s able to admit his own flaws, as well as put other people first rather than for his own gain.
JT: Now it’s time for the battle to begin. We get some sword fighting, and though Scott has leveled up, he’s still on the back foot against Gideon. Luckily, he’s not alone!! Knives saves him for a sword slice and slashes back at Gideon, making him swallow his gun!! That’ll be in his digestive tract for 7 years!! Now we get the two of them fighting Gideon, but it’s still an uphill battle as he knocks Knives off the throne, and swings down at Scott, smashing his sword!! With Gideon feeling all high and mighty, Ramona comes to comfort him. He happily chirps “Still my girl”, only for her to quip back “let’s both be girls” and knee him right in the balls! I will say, I like that Ramona was sidelined up until now for this moment. Clearly she is grappling with battling the hold Gideon has on her, but it’s not something Scott does that frees her, like destroying the chip. She pushes through and does it herself. Similarly, it was nice to see Knives choose herself to help Scott battle Gideon, just shows she is truly a good person.
S: Knives is probably the most consistent protagonist in the whole movie, she’s constantly positive, she means well and if she is slightly antagonistic, it feels like she’s got a reason to do so. Also, the fact she’s a total badass as well is a great touch. Was she like this in the comics at all?
JT: Personality wise, she was definitely pretty similar. The fight she has in this final act with Ramona actually happens much earlier in the story, like around Volume 2. Moreover, it’s Knives who tells Ramona that Scott cheated on them, not Scott. Her obsession with Scott is a little lower key than in the movie, though it’s still there. And finally, in the end, when Scott is super depressed with no Rammy around (I’ll explain more about this later), he asks a now 18 Knives if she wants to hang, and she turns him down! She says she’s growing as a person, and is learning to move on. They still make out a little and it sucks, and that slams that chapter shut for each of them. They’re pretty much reconciled friends by the end of the comics, he even sees her off to college!
S: Well how about that? It is pretty cool that Knives learns to move on from Scott and Scott sees her off to college, that’s quite sweet actually and it shows that she’s grown as a character too.
JT: Yeah it’s genuinely pretty sweet. You know what’s not? DV!! After Ramona knees Gideon’s nads, he proceeds to slap her and kick her down the stairs (with “Bad” sound effects). As a result, he gets an awesome final beatdown from Knives and Scott, which is framed like their Ninja Dance scene at the start of the movie! Gideon is glitching out and his glasses are breaking as he hacks up a coin as if it were blood. He complains how he spent so much time (2 hours) getting the league together, he is still what’s hot!! He’s what’s blowing up right now! Yeah you are blowing up, right now, and BOOM!!! A punt kick explodes Gideon into a million coins, raining money on everyone. Grab those coins folks, Gideon ain’t around to hand out paychecks anymore. Thought on our big final fight and the demise of our final Evil Ex?
S: A fitting end to the gauntlet of evil exes, if you ask me. The fight has its proper booking and Scott does everything right. Gideon shows his true colors by being a woman slapping pieces of shit, which ultimately leads to his demise. The callback to the start of the movie with Knives and Scott teaming up to beat up Gideon was really awesome, and it does kind of show that Knives and Scott make a really good team. Furthermore to Gideon’s defeat, him glitching out, being an arrogant mouthpiece and receiving a proper Pat McAfee punt to finish him off as he explodes in coins, as well as raining coins in the chaos theater. A proper, video game style satisfying conclusion to the boss battle. I loved it, there was just something amazing about it raining coins and the music which accompanied it.
JT: Yeah between the music, the sound effects, visuals and choreography that feels like a special move in a fighting game, it’s got a great feeling of finality to it. It definitely makes Knives & Scott look great in victory.
S: It’s like if Knives and Scott were a co-op character or one person controls two characters in Smash Bros and this was their Final Smash, much like Ice Climbers.
JT: Ramona even says they make a nice team. But before anyone can react to that, suddenly, A WILD NEGA SCOTT APPEARS!! Bonus stage!! Ramona & Knives leave so that Scott can deal with him and….it turns out no fight was necessary!! They just kind of walk out together, turns out they have a lot in common. They’re gonna get brunch soon. This is a pretty major departure from the comics, where the Nega Scott happens before Gideon, and is a rather serious moment. But honestly? I like this better. It’s funnier, Michael Cera is great with his conversational tone, and the whole Nega Scott fight wasn’t really a big deal. Like it’s a moment of self reflection for Scott, but it’s only a few pages long and it feels like a realization that would’ve come without that fight or not. Scott realizes he’s a dick already in the movie, so it’s a nice bait and switch here.
S: Now that you mention it, it’s a very video gamey thing to face an evil version of yourself before the main boss. I think of Dark Link in various Zelda games, and Shadow Mario in the first half of Mario Sunshine. Just like you though, I’m glad they went about it the way that they did, it just worked better for the tone of the movie at this stage.
JT: Especially with the redo fight against Gideon. I think one more big dramatic fight would’ve been overkill.
S: That too, I don’t think the audience who watched this in cinemas and people watching for the first time would’ve taken a roadblock before the Gideon showdown. You can get away with that stuff in video games, not in movies. The absolute right choice was made here.
JT: So now outside of chaos theater, in time to finally wrap the story up, and it looks like Ramona is leaving. After all that? She says she came to escape but the past keeps catching up. She’s tired that people keep getting hurt because of her actions.. She tells “You’re the nicest guy I’ve ever dated”, which Scott says is “kinda sad” and she agrees. This line is said in a totally different context than in the comic, where it’s a silly joke but this is still appropriate. So Ramona starts to head off, and Knives says “Go get her! You were fighting for her all along”. Scott asks Knives what she wants, and she says “I’ll be fine, I’m too cool for you anyways”. Ramona seems surprised that Scott wants to come with her, but he likes the idea of trying again with her. They hold hands, walk through the subspace door, the camera pans up to the sky and the video game “Continue?” graphic counts down to 0, with Ramona by Beck playing us out. Fin.
S: Must say, I appreciate how their story ends with how their story starts to take shape. That being them both going through the subspace door. The “continue?” graphic counting down to 0, they just rarely miss in this movie, do they. What more can I say at this stage other than I fucking love this movie?
JT: I think it’s a really lovely ending and a nice bow on the end of the movie. Knives moves on past her Scott obsessive phase, Ramona is not gonna run away from her past by taking Scott with her, and Scott is going to redo things with Ramona as a brand new Scott. Now, I think it’s time we talk about the alternate ending! Do you know about this?
S: Yes! I sure do know about the alternative ending, which I believe was an extra on the DVD or Blu-Ray release. I found this on YouTube after I had watched the movie and I do remember OSW covering it as well.
JT: Ok so for those of y’all that don’t know about this, it’s essentially an ending where Scott ends up with Knives, and says goodbye to Ramona. Ramona is happy to move on again, although admitting that saying goodbye is hard. They apologize for each of their problems, hug and walk opposite directions, with Knives & Scott going to the arcade for one last dance session, and the on screen “continue?” graphic being between them on the arcade machine. Now, I do think this ending is a bit more realistic, in that issues like Scott & Ramona have often caused breakups, even if they don’t hate each other afterwards. Sometimes, people ain’t compatible. I do feel like the movie still does lean towards that ending a bit by having Knives & Scott beat up Gideon. So I think if I had some issues with the movie, that would be a bit of a nitpick, that they put effort towards showing Scott & Knives have chemistry. Especially with the “you two make a good pair”. But personally, I don’t think the Scott x Knives pairing is the right way to end the movie. This movie really deals with growing up as a theme, and the actual ending we got allows each of the main 3 to do so. Plus, I feel like it’s kinda iffy to start the movie framing “Scott dating a high school girl is weird” but end up at the same place they started, y’know?
S: Definitely, it does feel like the trajectory at the end is for Scott and Knives to be together but it totally would’ve been going back on the message at the start of the movie. I think it was the right ending for the movie in my opinion. Also, I must ask, how did the comic book series end? Did it have this alternate ending, the proper ending for this movie or did the comic have a totally different ending completely?
JT: Well first I’d just like to note that the movie and final comic actually came out around the same time! The final comic came out the week before the movie was released, so personally I think it’s up to speculation which finished first. Movies take a while to finish production, so it was completed way before the release date, but also the comic’s last volume came out a week before the movie did! Interesting stuff me thinks. So, as for the ending of the comics? Well there’s a lot to say so allow me to explain.
So first, I’ll mention that Gideon’s manipulation of Ramona goes back volumes, in the form of “glow”. Basically every time she’d get self conscious about something, this glow would form around her head. What is this glow? Well it would be revealed in Volume 6 to be a manipulation of Subspace inside people’s own minds, basically a literal version of trapping people in their own heads. Unintentionally, it also allows people to access Subspace, like Ramona does. Gideon made his bank off inventing glow, using it to manipulate people and Subspace, with Ramona ultimately using it to run away.
The reason I bring all this up is because throughout the story, we see Ramona experience the glow with seemingly no explanation other than it being the story being quirky. In key scenes like Knives revealing Scott cheating on her, Ramona’s head glows. This causes her to essentially kick Scott out of their apartment (they move in together!) for a week or so. They end up having a drunken fight over it, with Ramona saying the titular “You’re just another Evil Ex waiting to happen”. Scott apologizes the next morning, and goes to fight the Twins (who have kidnapped Kim). During the fight they reveal Ramona cheated on each of them with each other (explaining why she’s so sensitive about the topic of cheating throughout the story). When Scott returns, she tells him she’s a bad person and while he tries to assure her he loves her, she disappears. You know the whole “Scott is depressed without Ramona” thing? That’s basically all of Volume 6. For months, nobody knows where Ramona is and Scott is depressed despite Wallace trying to motivate him to fight and defeat Gideon. During that period is when he meets with Knives, and also has a heart to heart with Envy and eventually Kim. From there we get the Nega Scott fight, where he realizes he’s been repressing his love for Ramona in recent months to escape reality. No more now.
This leads to his big fight against Gideon, where it’s revealed he didn’t actually take Ramona, she just disappeared. When Gideon kills him, Scott meets Ramona in Subspace where she reveals she went away to try and fix herself, and Scott cuts her off and kisses her, professing his love despite all her baggage. They then return with the Extra Life, Gideon reveals the fact he has frozen all his Exes and wants to put Ramona with them. He also reveals his manipulation of Glow, which pretty much reveals him as having made all the Evil Exes’s Evil. They fight him, he starts manipulating them into fighting each other, and Ramona starts to feel the need to run away again, and in the process Gideon stabs her. Scott goes into Subspace to get into Ramona’s head, where they have the “he’s literally got a way into my head” bit. However with Scott there, past versions of Ramona (as shown by different hair colors) reject Gideon and protect Scott. They go back to the real world, Ramona now has the Power of Love sword, healing her. Scott has the realization that he was really no better than Gideon, but that doesn’t mean he can’t get better, and he gains a sword for the Power of Understanding. Gideon reveals during the big sword fight that he had been manipulating Scott from inside the Subspace in his head, thus revealing why Scott couldn’t remember a lot of stuff (the fight that led him and Envy to breakup, backstory of his relationship with Kim). This pisses off Ramona enough to disarm him, and he tries to save his own skin by saying they’re their own worst enemies in the first place. Scott and Ramona go “No, he’s worse than either of us” and finish him.
In the end, after setting up other extra ending stuff like with Knives, Stephen and Kim, the comic ends the same way with Ramona and Scott walking through the Subspace door to give their relationship another try as new people.
S: That ending bit, I must say, I fucking love it and I think by reading what you’ve sent on to me there, it makes me think that the comic could be adapted into a really good limited series. Like I would love to see the exact story of the comic made into a one season thing with about 15-20 episodes of about 40+ minutes long like what Freaks and Geeks was. I really love the idea of Scott reconciling with Envy and Kim individually, I think those scenes would work fantastically in a TV series setting. The idea of Ramona being missing for 6 months and the extended explanation of “glow”, as well as Ramona and Scott finishing off Gideon, that would be a fitting end for him. I love the ending of this movie so much, but there’s something about the ending of the comic which would make it brilliant in a prolonged format.
JT: Yeah I will say, though the endings are different, they’re not fundamentally so, and I think they both fit the story as a whole. They’re both satisfying and wrap things up with a nice little bow.
S: Definitely, the prolonged ending of the comics fit that medium perfectly. The ending of the movie suits the movie medium too. It’s been emotional, I must say.
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I’m what’s hip, I’m what’s blowing up right now!
JT: Alright, so that was Scott Pilgrim vs The World (2010)!! What do you think Seán, fun time? Does it hold up as well on a rewatch? Any interesting things you noticed after seeing it again?
S: I had a whale of a time, both rewatching it and then reviewing it with you. This may be possibly one of my favorite reviews we’ve done. Getting to chat about one of my all time favorite movies, as well as getting to talk about my love of bass guitar among other subjects, especially your insight on the comics. This movie holds up so damn well on a rewatch, it’s something which I found myself enjoying even more on this watch. The main interesting things I noticed when watching it were most of the little nods to the evil exes. A lot of that stuff was pointed out by you, you’ve a great eye for this stuff, I’m very much an eyes focused on the center of the screen kinda guy, never really focus too much on the background. I’m a strange film observer like that. A lot of the interesting things I learned were from you, it was a real treat to hear what happened in the comics. I think that’ll help our review of this one stand out compared to other ones so honestly James, hats off to you. You’ve played a blinder here. Stuff like this is why you’re the host.
JT: Well I appreciate that bud. I try my best. It also helps that I’ve seen other people talk about this sort of stuff. I’ve gotta say, I too had a great time watching this, it’s still one of my absolute favorites. Really this time around I noticed a lot more of the little sound effects that were used constantly. I will also say, after reading the comics I did notice how the characters were a little thinner in the movie, and that they really went much harder with Knives & Scott together. But those didn’t really hamper my enjoyment, even with less of a focus on the characters, the movie has an energy that cannot be matched due to the incredible writing, acting and editing. Now for all our praise, we gotta address the elephant in the room, and that is the box office gate for this movie. Seán, I know this is later than you usually do it, but would you mind breaking out the facts and figures for this one?
S: Alrighty then! Scott Pilgrim vs. The World! Directed by Edgar Wright, of Cornetto Trilogy and Spaced fame at this point in his career. Produced by Edgar himself, as well as Eric Gitter, Nira Park and Marc Platt. The movie was released on the 13th of August in the United States and 12 days later on the 25th in the UK and Ireland. The biggest fact and figure about this movie is that it had a budget of 60-85 million dollars, with it drawing 49.3 million dollars at the box office. A net loss of 10.7-35.7 million. Which means this movie was a money loser. The most shocking part about this movie.
JT: It’s definitely shocking in hindsight. Like, I’m sure you dear readers have at least encountered someone who has pledged their love for this movie to you, if you are not that person yourself. It feels like one of the go to favorites for people who would cite themselves as a movie watcher. Not as in “someone who likes to watch movies” as in they’ll see a movie every once in a while and enjoy that, I mean as in people who actively watch movies as a hobby. For example, there’s the website/app Letterboxd, which can be used for rating, reviewing and generally keeping track of movies people have seen or want to see. On it, you can list your 4 Favorite movies to list on your profile. The site’s official account made a list 4 years ago listing the top 100 most commonly favorited movies, and they’re ranked by most watched. Scott Pilgrim not only features on that list, but it was 35th most seen. We’ve spent this whole review really talking about how enjoyable it is, thus it’s unmistakable cult popularity, but the fact it was actually a money loser for Hollywood does seem surprising (sort of).
S: It really is surprising with the power of hindsight and the resurgence in popularity which this movie has had over the years. Now I’ve never dug deep enough to find out why it was a money loss for Universal so I’ll ask you James, do you have the answers for me as to why this flopped at the box-office?
JT: Well I’ve seen a few takes, so I’ll share them. First off, the tagline for the movie sticks out to me as rather unexceptional. The theatrical release poster is tag-lined “An Epic of Epic Epicness”. I know it was 2010 and epic was verbal streets ahead, but like, what does that mean? It really doesn’t do a good job selling the movie. I like the poster too, but with Pilgrim playing bass on the poster with that tagline, I’m not surprised people didn’t show up. I mean, you look at it without prior knowledge and it would be hard to guess what the movie was even about! I will also say that the trailer did not do a great job highlighting the film’s strengths. Though it eventually shows some action, it seems to almost take a rom-com approach to things. Like y’all watch the trailer and tell me it doesn’t feel like a rom-com trailer. Not to say this movie isn’t romantic or comedic, but I think focusing on the action primarily would’ve gotten a lot more teenage boys to see this. So in general, bad marketing! Though admittedly, they had a tough job. I know a bunch of people who I think would adore this if they saw it, and I know a bunch of people who I wouldn’t recommend this to in a million years. It’s one of those films that if you love it you love it, but if you don’t love it, you don’t really like it much at all. I feel like there’s relatively little middle ground, though again at this point it’s a lot more love than hate.
S: I love that poster, it’s really cool but man, I saw the poster where it’s Scott, Ramona and then the seven exes at the top of the poster. The tagline too is just so much better as well! “Get the hot girl. Defeated her evil exes. Hit love where it hurts.” That’s so much better! Like you can’t tell me that isn’t a marketable tagline in 2010. You get to see Michael Cera fully, because his face obscured slightly in the picture in the poster you’re referencing. You get to see the girl in question, and the evil exes! Like that is such a better poster, why not go with that? You’re on about this being a movie with no middle ground for enjoyment, and you’re totally right. I’m going to use my family as an example, excluding my parents of course, like if I were to show this movie to my siblings, I reckon maybe one of them would like it. At a push two would enjoy it, and I’ve six siblings, I come from a big family. I don’t even think any of my siblings would have seen this if you ask me, a fair few of them have seen Hot Fuzz and Shaun of the Dead but I doubt they know this movie even exists.
JT: Again it was always going to be a tricky product to push, but ultimately that’s what you gotta do! You gotta eyes on it, not get people to love it. Some real stinkers have made lots of money off good marketing! Suicide Squad (2016) is an all time shitter of a movie, but it’s got big names and it got a trailer with Bohemian Rhapsody! It made three quarters of a billion dollars! Luckily, Edgar Wright hasn’t struggled to find work after this hurt Hollywood where it hurts (their wallets).
S: Oh Suicide Squad (2016) was marketed to fucking perfection, the movie absolutely stinks but they totally roped people in off the advertising and the trailers. Sure after this Edgar Wright had The World’s End, Baby Driver and most recently, Last Night in Soho. Two of those made profits while the last of those I mentioned, although I will allow for Last Night in Soho not making a profit because it’s still in the midst of the pandemic so people were still a bit hesitant about going to the cinema and seating was also limited in many countries at that time.
JT: Plus again, though he backed out of Ant-Man, it’s telling that he was why he left Ant-Man and not the MCU backing out on him. Although I’m sure if he stuck with Ant-Man, he may have gotten more jobs on the basis of “Throw money at marketable MCU names”. Although I feel like he really just does his movies at his pace, rather than chase huge profits.
S: Yeah I agree, he’s definitely someone who strikes me as someone who wants to take his time with shooting a movie, and someone who wants to make them in his own vision.
JT: Of course, it’s not all doom and gloom regarding Scott Pilgrim!! The initial label of a flop is pretty much irrelevant compared to its current status as a Cult Classic. Since then, we’ve gotten the final volume of the comics (with colored and hardcover re-releases), the 2010 Beat-Em-Up video game Scott Pilgrim vs The World for Xbox 360 and PS3 (which itself was re-released for Xbox One, PS4, and Nintendo Switch), and 4K re-releases in honor of the movie’s 10th Anniversary (originally planned for 2020, happening in 2021). Oh, and in 2022 the Hollywood Reporter revealed a Scott Pilgrim anime/animated series is in development by Netflix and Universal’s UCP, makers of the Umbrella Academy and Chucky TV series! Of course, development hell is a real thing a lot of series struggle to escape from, but it goes to show that “Scott Pilgrim” is not a series tied to being a flop.
S: Okay now that you’ve mentioned that it’s going to be an anime/animated series developed by the same guys who do the Umbrella Academy, very promising not gonna lie. I mentioned the idea of it being commissioned into a live action, 20 episode series but hey! I’ll take this any day of the week.
JT: I will also add one little plug for the animated mini series out there! It was supposed to be a bigger series but only 2 scenes were ever released. But hey, one of them features my favorite character to not be feared in the movie, Lisa! She actually played an integral part to the Ramona/Scott/relationship, as someone who was into Scott in high school and made Ramona scared that Scott might cheat on her in Book 4.
S: Oh wow, now that’s a character I’d totally be interested in getting to see developed in a series like scenario, obviously there’s only so much you can put into a movie so if this character is used in the series then I’m all for the characters getting proper stories.
JT: She’s great! Really very Knives-esque as far as just being a real sweetheart. Again, this is my last pitch to any of you who enjoy the movie to read the comics! They’re great, plus it’s a nice way to kick back some funds to Bryan Lee O’Malley, the man who started it all.
S: Give that man all the money possible for creating this wonderful fictional world within Toronto, Canada for all of us. Thanks to you Bryan, that name has a bit of Irish, sure we’ll claim you as one of our own.
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Continue?
JT: Well now, as another Sean would say, all that’s left is to roll out the red carpet!! It’s time to give out some end of review awards!! We’ve got some special ones for this special movie review, don’t we?
S: We sure do! Now usually we have our traditional Match of the Night and MVP awards for each wrestling show which we cover but for this special movie review, we have got some different awards, that’s for sure.
JT: So on the docket tonight, we have: Best Fight for our favorite fight (obviously), Best Song for our favorite song (again, duh), Best Gag for our favorite joke or recurring bit in the movie, Best Side Character to celebrate someone who starred with limited screen time, and of course MVP for our MVP of the motion picture. I differ to you in what we tackle first.
S: Oh fuck man, we’re going proper end of season awards for this bad boy then. I think we should start off with the best fight, that’s a strong award to start off with.
JT: I think my pick for Best Fight is gonna be the Scott Pilgrim vs Stunt Doubles fight. Again for being an original, it was great! Scott got goons he could have a bit more give and take with than most of the exes, with a nice big comeback and good comedic bits.
S: I loved that too, the whole Lucas Lee segment of the movie was brilliant, especially the stunt doubles fight. Another fight I’d like to mention would obviously be Round 2 with Gideon and of course the bass battle and all that with Todd. Best fight, I think I’m gonna give it to the second go around against Gideon Graves.
JT: That’s a great pick, probably has the best choreography of the whole movie, between the sword fight with the goons, the sword fighting with Gideon (who btw is incredible as a sword fighter with his cocky hand behind his back swinging), and then those Knives/Scott combo moves were pretty slick! Alright next up, best song!
S: Best song, now that’s a good one. I really loved all of the songs which got full coverage in the movie. “Garbage Truck”, “Threshold”, “We Are Sex Bob-Omb” and “Black Sheep”. Those are the four pillars right there. I’m gonna say “Black Sheep” takes it, I think it’s a really awesome tune and if you watch the full music video for it, it’s quite awesome.
JT: I was tempted to go with Garbage Truck actually, because I genuinely really like that song and its silly lyrics. But I mean, Black Sheep’s undefeated. Those first few seconds of the song are so hype. I was driving with a friend a couple months back and Black Sheep came on and I had to restrain myself from doing Brie Larson’s on beat hair flips.
S: Oh man, I do those hair flips on the regular now that the hair is grown out. That song in particular is quite infectious for doing hair flips, let me tell ya.
JT: Alright now this one, this one will be a real tough one. At this point, I think I might as well let you name 3 picks for “Best Gag”, unless you have a clear cut absolute favorite.
S: So when we’re talking gags, are we talking like a line or just like funny moments in the movie? Say, each time Scott and Wallace wake up in the middle of the night, there’s another additional guy in the bed, because that’s a funny gag.
JT: I went with “Best Gag” in the sense I didn’t want to limit it to just like spoken jokes. If you wanted to include sound effects, physical humor, lines, it’s up to you. Agreed that the “dudes in bed” joke is great. I especially liked the “And you didn’t bang her? What are you gay?”.
S: Oh if we’re talking physical humor, the whole Lucas Lee grinning down a rail on his skateboard so fast that he explodes?? That’s a really funny gag, cut in between the Owen Wilson like wows from Scott. I’m gonna go for that gag as my favorite.
JT: I’m gonna nominate three myself: Scott jumping through the window to avoid Knives, and then the whole extended “L Word” bit and finally Julie’s censor. Honorable mention to “Bread Makes you FAT?!?” for being my most quoted line.
S: Julie’s censor, of course! How can I forget to mention that? I’ve done wrong by Aubrey Plaza so I have.
JT: Minor non-award award to the folks in charge of casting again, Julie legit feels like an audition for April from PANDR. And speaking of Julie, we’ve got our side character award, for all the many talented folks who’d get snubbed for MVP. Honorable mentions to Julie, Todd, and Wallace Wells!! But my pick has gotta be Lucas Lee. It’s all so insanely memorable and fun whenever he’s on screen. So many great lines, so many great gags. Lucas Lee is just my favorite Side Character.
S: Definitely. I love all of those characters, mention to Comeau for his very brief appearance too but it just has to be Lucas Lee, he steals the show whenever he shows up. Cannot argue with that.
JT: Alright now are you ready for a special bonus round? As in, putting together my side character list I realized we should’ve had this in place to start with? I’m talking about giving me your ranking of all 7 Evil Exes, favorite to least favorite.
S: Oh man, now that’s a toughie. Alright so I think I’d put the Katayanagi Twins at the bottom, Roxy Richter just above them because at least she had some good lines and more screen time. In fourth I’d put Matthew Patel, I think him being placed in the middle is suitable for him. Third place, I think it’s fair to put Todd Ingram in there, he’s great but I think Gideon has just more villainous energy than him. Top of the shop, is it Gideon Graves or Lucas Lee? It’s Lucas Lee at the top for me, even though he’s the second of the seven, I think his role is just damn memorable and great. Gideon is great too, in terms of his cuntishness but man Lucas Lee is the ultimate jock douche who’s good at everything. So the ranking looks like this:
1. Lucas Lee
2. Gideon Graves
3. Todd Ingram
4. Matthew Patel
5. Roxy Richter
6 and 7. Kyle and Ken Katayanagi
JT: Wow, we really have similar tastes huh? My list is pretty much virtually the same, except I just enjoy Todd too much, so he snags the #2 spot over Gideon. The vegan/psychic related jokes are too good!!
1. Lucas Lee
2. Todd Ingram
3. Gideon Graves
4. Matthew Patel
5. Roxy Richter
6. and 7. Kyle & Ken Katayanagi
S: Yeah with Todd and Gideon for me, I can swap them around depending on which side of the bed I wake up on. My opinion between which of those two are better really can change on a whim.
JT: Alright last and certainly not least, we’ve got our MVP Award. And as much as I think Michael Cera does a wonderful job as our main character, and at the risk of giving him too much credit, I’m going to give my MVP to Edgar Wright. So much of this movie isn’t just the material, but how that material is presented visually and sonically. For that, I just gotta raise the banner for Edgar Wright as my MVP.
S: Definitely, I think Michael Cera is our on-screen MVP when we chat about the actors but overall MVP, I think it definitely has to be Edgar Wright himself. I don’t think this movie could’ve been presented this way without him at the helm, like he was the most perfect director for this comic book series being adapted into a film and flowing the way it does. Hats off to Edgar.
JT: Hats off to everyone involved in this really!! Even if it didn’t make Scrooge McDuck profits, it’s clearly left its mark in a way that captures the imagination of tons of people out there. Scott Pilgrim is a Cult Classic for a reason, and I’m always reminded of its greatness anytime it returns to my orbit. It’s a blast of a movie, and I had a blast doing this special power hour episode!!
S: I feel the exact same way as you do about this one, I think this is a special episode in all honesty and one which I think we will look back on fondly. It’s been great fun doing this episode, a perfect mid season break before we get into the demise of seven young talents in 2010 WWE.
JT: That’s right! Next time up, it’s back to our regularly scheduled programming! Coming down the pipeline next is Night of Champions 2010, where all the titles are on the line, and we see the fallout of the Nexus’s defeat at Summerslam.
S: The fallout of that, the culmination of Detective Kane’s case. What’s the fate of the Straight Edge Society? What the heck will come out of that LayCool/Melina scrap at SummerSlam? I’m aware of it but I’ll be rearing to go as soon as possible!
JT: Until then, it’ll be a (Knives) Chau from me James!!
S: And I’m off to Pizza Pizza for a slice from me Seán!
JT: Till next time I’m reaching my threshold, Staring at the truth till I’m blind!!
The JT & Seány Mc Power Hour 